EvoIII 16G Install Questions

[mnetwork]

I've done all my base upgrades and all I have left is the turbo and the things that go with it. Going to buy this within two weeks probably. I have some very important questions before I do though...

I am going to be buying everything off of SBR so I had a question about the 2g install kit. I just want to make sure that I will not have to buy a LICP (using the stock intercooler for now) if I get the install kit.. Is this so?

I am doing things in stages so without putting in the afc will I be safe to run at 16psi with the new turbo until then? Would running at 16psi with the 16g be any different than running it with the t25?

How much do you recommend the "$100 Upgrade" shown here >> http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=93&??

Thank you in advance for the replies.

 

[skinnykenny84]

As long as it has a j pipe included then your good. Some j pipes are used with your stock lower intercooler pipe some are not. You will be able to determine that when it gets here. If it doesnt reach the side mount then you will likely need a peice of the stock pipe to join the two. Unless you are running a front mount and I didnt see it in your profile....... When it comes to the 100$ upgrade, thats a matter of opinion. Personaly I think by the time you buy the turbo, install kit, upgrade kit, then you have spent the same or more than a bigger turbo would cost. I like to do things to bring down the cost like make my own install kit or what ever. Just a thought

 

[skinnykenny84]

After checking the link out I see it is "complete", your good to go.

* theres a fellow dsmtuner in the classifieds selling install kits for a good price........$75 I beleive. Now with the 125$ I saved you, you can send me $50!!!! good luck

 

[mnetwork]

I see your points, I'm just new to things and putting together my own install kit is a hassle for me. It's enought that I'm doing everything mostly on my own. What is your take on the boost level with the stock i/c, stock injectors, no afc, and the re-wired 190?? I searched for it, but there are so many different responses on that.. I am planning on doing injectors and afc right after the upgrade.. I just can't handle all that in one day..

 

[skinnykenny84]

after further thought I would deff save some money and go with the install kit in the classefieds. I would run no more than about 15/16 psi and that depends on a few things. Weather
what size down pipe your running
if your running a cat or not
if you have boost leaks or not
problems with boost creep
personaly Id set it to 14psi untill I did some other mods and maybe get a logger before cracking it up

 

[mnetwork]

How much more power do you think that would be creating than 16 psi on the t-25??

 

[skinnykenny84]

maybe 50 hp, total, not sure about at the wheels though?? It will feel like a 100 compared to the t-2small !! , especially up top

 

[DSMvroom]

I myself bought my evoIII and install kit from SBR.

I had a little issue with the j pipe they sent, which you can read about in a thread I started about it. Anyway, problem 'solved' and the installation went well otherwise.

Don't kid yourself though, I have stock fuel with this turbo and I can't even WOT in any gear. The damn thing creeps so bad with my 2.5" dp and 2.5" cat-back. It really seems to want to be at 20psi, and I've got it set at 11psi right now. It'll hit 11 just after 3k, and then it just starts going up exponentially almost immediately after. I tried setting at 15psi also and it was the same story, so I set it back to 11psi to try and give it more 'room' to creep. (This issue will be resolved when I get my fuel taken care of and I'll tune the car to 20psi)

Oh and hitting fuel cut in 3rd gear at 5k rpms is scary business. I thought my car blew itself up and i almost slammed my head into the wheel (ty seatbelt!). I heard a loud bang come out of the exhaust too, which I imagine was the motor backfiring bigtime. This was on the first day I drove w/ the new turbo after doing a few warm up runs to check for leaks.

Checked pocketlogger and at 15psi I was pushing 32lbs/min. Much more than the 2xlbs/min on t25

Long story short, SBR kit is well put together assuming they send a j pipe that isn't totally Fd up and will make your install easy. DO NOT get the upgrade. You will have EVERYTHING you need with the regular kit.

 

[mnetwork]

What do you mean by stock fuel??? You mean your pump? Because I already have a walbro 190 installed..

 

[DSMvroom]

Yea my entire fuel system is stock. AFAIK a 190 will be enough to tune to ~20psi but not by itself, so you will need to keep yours lower until all your fuel is taken care of.

My next step is a 190 and once I get it in I will do more logs, but with current fuel, timing is being retarded as early as 4k rpms :-/ Compared to with the t25, which had a nice increase in timing all the way to redline.

 

[skinnykenny84]

I myself bought my evoIII and install kit from SBR.

I had a little issue with the j pipe they sent, which you can read about in a thread I started about it. Anyway, problem 'solved' and the installation went well otherwise.

Don't kid yourself though, I have stock fuel with this turbo and I can't even WOT in any gear. The damn thing creeps so bad with my 2.5" dp and 2.5" cat-back. It really seems to want to be at 20psi, and I've got it set at 11psi right now. It'll hit 11 just after 3k, and then it just starts going up exponentially almost immediately after. I tried setting at 15psi also and it was the same story, so I set it back to 11psi to try and give it more 'room' to creep. (This issue will be resolved when I get my fuel taken care of and I'll tune the car to 20psi)

Oh and hitting fuel cut in 3rd gear at 5k rpms is scary business. I thought my car blew itself up and i almost slammed my head into the wheel (ty seatbelt!). I heard a loud bang come out of the exhaust too, which I imagine was the motor backfiring bigtime. This was on the first day I drove w/ the new turbo after doing a few warm up runs to check for leaks.

Checked pocketlogger and at 15psi I was pushing 32lbs/min. Much more than the 2xlbs/min on t25

Long story short, SBR kit is well put together assuming they send a j pipe that isn't totally Fd up and will make your install easy. DO NOT get the upgrade. You will have EVERYTHING you need with the regular kit.

man the first thing you need to do is a boost leak test. If your hitting fuel cut like that you got a leak or some bad plugs/wies. You shouldnt be having these issues at all just from slapping on a 16g. I ran one for a year on my first dsm with absolutely no fuel upgrades. Just hard piping and exhaust. Ran it at about 15psi with a lil creep to 16. Double check your boost controller connections and be sure you got the right boost source. should be like this.......http://www.belitski.com/vfaqhallman.html

also do have that turbo ported around the waste gate flapper and or have the upgraded w.g. flapper?? Shouldnt see so much boost creep with a 2.5" down pipe????

you guys will find it VERY beneficial to get familiar with this site. ( www.vfaq.com )

 

[DSMvroom]

man the first thing you need to do is a boost leak test. If your hitting fuel cut like that you got a leak or some bad plugs/wies. You shouldnt be having these issues at all just from slapping on a 16g. I ran one for a year on my first dsm with absolutely no fuel upgrades. Just hard piping and exhaust. Ran it at about 15psi with a lil creep to 16. Double check your boost controller connections and be sure you got the right boost source. should be like this.......http://www.belitski.com/vfaqhallman.html

also do have that turbo ported around the waste gate flapper and or have the upgraded w.g. flapper?? Shouldnt see so much boost creep with a 2.5" down pipe????

you guys will find it VERY beneficial to get familiar with this site. ( www.vfaq.com )

I wouldn't rule out a boost leak but I am still unable to successfully complete a test, since I can't get the intake system to pressurize. (This is also talked about in other threads I have participated in. If you have tips, please PM me or add to the relevant threads)

As far as vfaq, I am very familar. My hallman pro is correctly installed, you can trust me on that.

For the creep, I'm sure you fill find pretty much all evoIII owners will say the same. . . it creeps big time. From what I've read on other people's experiences in the past, some have even had trouble from it on a stock exhaust. To answer your question, there has been no porting done on the turbo or o2 housing, and flapper is oem also. (Stock 2g o2 btw, I decided not to install my external dump for inspection reasons).

When I hit the cut, it was around 5500rpm, 3rd gear, and IIRC boost was already at 19psi with no signs of slowing down its rise. Anyway I didn't do any more after that because I'm not trying to blow my head gasket, even if it is MLS. As stated above, I can't ever WOT or else it will creep WELL past 16psi.


./backtotopic

EDIT : If I can find the log I was doing on that run I'll post it up so you guys can see how terrible it looks w/o fuel support. I think I've posted my t25 log also in another thread to compare to.

 

[exile]

maybe 50 hp, total, not sure about at the wheels though?? It will feel like a 100 compared to the t-2small !! , especially up top

I'm sorry Kenny, I'm not sure if you know what you're talking about on that one.

a 16g @ 14psi-16psi untuned may not yeild anymore power than what you have now. It wouldn't be wise to run that 16g on what you specified (basically just a rewired 190) until you have: AFC, Injectors, AFPR. At that point there shouldn't be anything stopping you from running 18psi+. The 16g really opens up after 18psi.

Keep it @ 14psi or lower if you care about your engine and want power until you can support that air with fuel.

 

[skinnykenny84]

thats why I didnt even want to speculate on that. Too many circumstances. However from my own experience I can tell you that you will gain some hp by simply swaping out the turbo.......BUT how much depends on your mods and how intact your car is from the begining. I did say leave it at 14psi untill you get some kind of logger and fuel, at least we did agree on that!

 

[skinnykenny84]

I wouldn't rule out a boost leak but I am still unable to successfully complete a test, since I can't get the intake system to pressurize. (This is also talked about in other threads I have participated in. If you have tips, please PM me or add to the relevant threads)

As far as vfaq, I am very familar. My hallman pro is correctly installed, you can trust me on that.

For the creep, I'm sure you fill find pretty much all evoIII owners will say the same. . . it creeps big time. From what I've read on other people's experiences in the past, some have even had trouble from it on a stock exhaust. To answer your question, there has been no porting done on the turbo or o2 housing, and flapper is oem also. (Stock 2g o2 btw, I decided not to install my external dump for inspection reasons).

When I hit the cut, it was around 5500rpm, 3rd gear, and IIRC boost was already at 19psi with no signs of slowing down its rise. Anyway I didn't do any more after that because I'm not trying to blow my head gasket, even if it is MLS. As stated above, I can't ever WOT or else it will creep WELL past 16psi.


./backtotopic

EDIT : If I can find the log I was doing on that run I'll post it up so you guys can see how terrible it looks w/o fuel support. I think I've posted my t25 log also in another thread to compare to.

if you cant get it to pressurize at all then its more likely theres a boost leak. When I did my first test I was loosing pressure so bad it wouldnt even register any boost while adding air to it. Thats how bad the leak was. It was my smic. Leaking like hell. So, first things first, DO the leak test!!!!!!!

 

[kenamond]

For the creep, I'm sure you fill find pretty much all evoIII owners will say the same. . . it creeps big time. From what I've read on other people's experiences in the past, some have even had trouble from it on a stock exhaust. To answer your question, there has been no porting done on the turbo or o2 housing, and flapper is oem also. (Stock 2g o2 btw, I decided not to install my external dump for inspection reasons).

When I hit the cut, it was around 5500rpm, 3rd gear, and IIRC boost was already at 19psi with no signs of slowing down its rise. Anyway I didn't do any more after that because I'm not trying to blow my head gasket, even if it is MLS. As stated above, I can't ever WOT or else it will creep WELL past 16psi.

You can test for creep. Disconnect the wastegate actuator arm, make sure your wastegate opens freely by hand, then do a run that way and see what boost you get. Since the flapper isn't being held closed, you shouldn't see more than a few psi of boost unless you have a creep problem. If you have a creep problem, you might still scream up to 19psi and hit fuel cut.

You can use an external gate and route it back into your DP, by the way, and that will route all of your exhaust through your cat for inspection. Or you can port the turbine housing properly.

 

[kenamond]

mnetwork: Consider porting your evo3 turbine housing. As you've seen, they are notorious for creep. Check this turbo tech article to learn all about it.

If you're planning on a large exhaust, you'll probably need the porting or an external gate.

 

[mnetwork]

I am planning on def. getting the bigger flapper and getting the manifold and turbine housing ported.... Also, is there any advantage with the dump o2 sensor housing??

Another question.. should I be able to run 20psi after I get the afc, logger, and 660's... The evoIII manifold and new o2 sensor housing are gonig on at the same time as the turbo... You can look at my profile for my current mods...

 

[mnetwork]

Also...does the J-pipe have a nipple on it? Where will I get my pressure for my boost controller.. I am currently getting it off of the compressor housing, but the 16G doesn't have a nipple on it, right?

 

[skinnykenny84]

By the time you add those mods your gonna be maxing out the stock intercooler so look into maybe a supra side mount, front mount, or maybe even water injection, then I dont see a problem running 20 psi, as long as your tuning is right and dont forget about that logger. Or just get dsmlink and do both at the same time.

and yes, there should be a nipple on the j pipe.

 

[dillo06]

If your going to want to run 20 psi your going to need the fuel to do it. the 660cc injectors should be fine, the safc II would also help, and a logger is not needed if you get it dyno tuned but to pick up a dsm link should be next on your list. the only issue with your fuel system is your 190 fuel pump. id go to a 255 hp to run 20 psi and still have the fuel to do it then get the afpr kit. if your going to get all that go to extremepsi.com and get their fuel kit. nice price over 44% off. its under packaged deals.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Don't get the turbo ported. Don't get a larger flapper. Especially if you are going to run 20psi (you are getting aftermarket cams, right?).

I have zero creep at 20psi with my Evo III 16G. In fact, I can turn the boost lower and still not get creep.

If you get the turbo ported, your boost is going to fall in the top end as the exhaust manifold pressure builds up.

 

[mnetwork]

Why does the tech guide say that the sidemount is good up till 400? I also read a lot on these forums that a 190 is fine for the 16g spectrum and a 255 is not needed. I am not going higher than 400 for sure. How much psi on this turbo do you think it would take to 300 whp, just so i can get an idea of the power on this turbo...

I am also planning to tune myself, I already bought the logger.

 

[BeerBaron]

I had crazy creep on my 16g when i had vpc in. Tried wastegate dump, no change. Took out vpc, put back in hacked 1g maf, holds steady at 16-17. But hey, at least i can hold till redline; and i took an evo last night

 

[mnetwork]

How does the maf help with boost creep?? And yes, I am planning on getting hks cams later on... I would like to start out with 300hp, since I am not going to dyno I would like to know around what psi that would be on this turbo...