Evo wanna be! Suspension help

[igs]

Technically the 2g has "struts", they're just not "macpherson struts".

 

[FutureGSXOwner]

This post might come off as a bit ignorant but what I'm trying to do is make my 99 GSX feel as much like an EVO as possible. My current suspension setup is totally shot and I'm willing to dish the cash to really make my GSX enjoyable to drive again. Can anyone point me in the right direction here?

 

[bane3d]

In my previous cars, I've found that upgrading the sway bars have helped phenomenally in the handling. I've really felt the difference on corning and could see an increase in speed on turns. Take a look at this post: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...racing-sway-bar-group-buy-popular-demand.html

d

 

[talonTSIDriver]

My last project's goal was to make an "EVO Beater"

I had front and rear RMDSM Sway bars with Megan Coil-overs. I was VERY happy with that setup. Evo's also have MUCH better brakes than the stock DSM's. Check out TCEperformance.com for brakes.

 

[Dallas J]

My last project's goal was to make an "EVO Beater"

I had front and rear RMDSM Sway bars with Megan Coil-overs. I was VERY happy with that setup. Evo's also have MUCH better brakes than the stock DSM's. Check out TCEperformance.com for brakes.

Long Answer

IMO, stock evo's have that "feeling" of handling good because the OEM shocks have too much damping force. It works, and they do put down impressive times but it shouldnt take much to make your DSM handle just as well.

The areas we are behind the evo's in is chassis stiffness (A cage doesnt fix this unless youre tying in the front strut towers), and in the 04(& up) RS/MR and 05 (& up) GSR, the ACD and torsen LSD.

Let us know how aggressive you're willing to go, and we can help you more. I say this because if you want 600+lb/in front springs, then a greater split in the spring rates along with a softer rear bar should make things a bit more predictable. If just just want something like eibach pro-kit with koni's then both front and rear sways would be appropriate because of your lack of spring in the front.

Short Answer

Low Cost - eibach springs, tokico's, RM bars (can you still buy these?)

Med Cost - Ground Controls, Koni's, RM bars, and a few extra spring rates to play with the car balance.

High Cost - Uhh, I havent gotten there yet.

 

[turbosax2]

^^^^ High Cost - RM bars, JIC FLT-A2's + John Mueller.

Welcome to Muellerized Suspension Systems
RRE Eclipse JIC Coil Over Suspension Info

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

^^^^^^^^^^ High Cost, RRE rear, penske or moton setup. .

 

[greentrbo_95gst]

pm'd you

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

What about tein super streets?

 

[Dallas J]

What about tein super streets?

:ugh: , If you want good handling stay away from most of the "JDM" names. All they add to youre car is hype.

 

[turbosax2]

:ugh: , If you want good handling stay away from most of the "JDM" names. All they add to youre car is hype.

What's wrong with Tein? Have you had bad experiences with them? My brother has Tein Flex's and I like them.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Its kind of hard to say this suspension is best or this one is better. Every car is somewhat unique, and not only the car, but the driver's style of driving as well as the type of racing. The TRUE best suspension setup for a givin person and a givin style or racing is something that has been tested, and tried, and re-tested, and tried again, until you have a fine tuned suspension setup that is tuned for your type of driving.

Different things that can be changed are different spring rates, dampner settings, bigger/smaller sway bars, alignment settings (camber, caster, toe). Also there is weight distribution, and the objective for perfect balance.

 

[Dallas J]

What's wrong with Tein? Have you had bad experiences with them? My brother has Tein Flex's and I like them.

While even the koni's are inaccurate from shock to shock, most of the JDM brands arent even in the same ball park. Also they couple the rebound and compression damping so if you turn up one, the other increases as well. Unfortunately, they dont increase at the same rates from shock to shock either.

Also, they dont have enough damping to be able to control real spring rates. Their soft ish stock rates just arent enough to control the weight with the chassis flex our cars have. Sure theyre fine for the street where youre never gonna consitantly be at the limit like when Autocrossing or Roadracing.

I know from experience the feeling of a DSM balanced well at 450ft/350rr, 550ft/350rr, 550ft/450rr, and 700ft/450rr. At anything over 350lb/in in the rear I would get snap oversteer really bad on corner entry unless I had the stock rear bar on. Once I did that I realised how much more predictable the car is with less bar and more spring. Also, the front just bit harder on corner entry with each higher spring rate and I think itll only get better with more front spring.

Right now, im in love with the control and feeling of my car at 700lb/in front, 450lb/in rear, Koni yellows, RM front bar, stock rear, full prothane kit, SPC control arms set at -2.5* camber, and about -1* rear camber.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Right now, im in love with the control and feeling of my car at 700lb/in front, 450lb/in rear, Koni yellows, RM front bar, stock rear, full prothane kit, SPC control arms set at -2.5* camber, and about -1* rear camber.

Wow, our setups are nearly the EXACT same accept I run an 800lb front springs with a 425lb rear.

 

[Dallas J]

Wow, our setups are nearly the EXACT same accept I run an 800lb front springs with a 425lb rear.

Are you still on the off the shelf koni's or did you get yours revalved? Id like to go higher to keep those 275s off the fenders, im just worried about the shocks blowing.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Right now, im in love with the control and feeling of my car at 700lb/in front, 450lb/in rear, Koni yellows, RM front bar, stock rear, full prothane kit, SPC control arms set at -2.5* camber, and about -1* rear camber.

Are your control arms decreasing the length of suspension compression you have available? What size are your bump stops? When you bottom out are they hitting metal? Have you had any issues with these in general, like the cracking ball-joint boot?

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Are you still on the off the shelf koni's or did you get yours revalved? Id like to go higher to keep those 275s off the fenders, im just worried about the shocks blowing.

They are just off-the-shelf koni sports. Acctually the fronts are still a 650lb spring but I have a set of 800lb springs that are going on over winter.

Where do you send them to get revalved?

 

[Dallas J]

My control arms arent hitting at all, its the tires that are the problem.

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[Dallas J]

They are just off-the-shelf koni sports. Acctually the fronts are still a 650lb spring but I have a set of 800lb springs that are going on over winter.

Where do you send them to get revalved?

I cant remember where exactly, but it was discussed on the DSMLink forum. Id like to get mine revalved or modified into DA's if possible and move up to 900s.

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

I have the tein flex on my GST and i dont like them,doesnt handle well at all. I am looking for something for my GSX.

 

[TSiAWD666]

My control arms arent hitting at all, its the tires that are the problem.

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I wonder then if you will be if/when you resolve your fender issues. That's the issue I have and will be throwing on some overfenders (and of course cutting up the stock metal) after xmas is over.

 

[Dallas J]

When did you get yours? The first batch they made had problems with the very outside edge hitting the fender before it tucked up all the way. After they figured it out, they changed it and mine dont have any problems with fitting.

You can grind away some of the material so it will fit, at least thats what some of the guys have done on dsmlink forums.

With my car I dont have to worry about it. The tires hit the fender before theirs a chance for the control arms to hit. In that picture I had just put the tires on (they were still on the old control arms) and the car is too low and springs were too soft. Now the car sits at a solid 3 finger gap and with the heavier springs they only rub slightly under extreme loads.

 

[TSiAWD666]

When did you get yours? The first batch they made had problems with the very outside edge hitting the fender before it tucked up all the way. After they figured it out, they changed it and mine dont have any problems with fitting.

You can grind away some of the material so it will fit, at least thats what some of the guys have done on dsmlink forums.

With my car I dont have to worry about it. The tires hit the fender before theirs a chance for the control arms to hit. In that picture I had just put the tires on (they were still on the old control arms) and the car is too low and springs were too soft. Now the car sits at a solid 3 finger gap and with the heavier springs they only rub slightly under extreme loads.

Crap I re-read what I wrote and was vague. By "problem" I was referring to hitting the fenders on compression. I run 18x8.5 +35mm offset wheels with 245/40/18 tires and they hit the fenders. My previous tires 255/35/18 tires also hit. Prior to these two experiments I ran 245/35/18 tires and those cleared, but in the rear require pretty nasty camber (-1.5 to -2, I forget where I'm at now) though my fender plans for the spring will address this finally. I'd like to run 255 or 265 tires simply so I have a decent tire selection as the 245/35/18 are not widely available in the brands/models I want.

You did answer a lot of what I was curious about in regards to your control arms. Thanks for that! Only thing I'm curious about is if the ball joint boots on the arms have the degradation/cracking problem noted in the standalone ball-joints from SPC. Have you noticed anything with those?

My questions as you guessed it were prompted from earlier issues I'd read about, and perhaps they're addressed in current designs. In addition to those from looking at the design I had concerns with the overall knuckle/balljoint/arm combination length increasing which would in turn decrease available shock travel, meaning I'd need to cut new bump stops so I don't go slamming them into the metal on full compression. Currently my bump stops only have the bottom "ring". which seems to just cover it with the stock upper arm.

 

[Dallas J]

Im pretty sure with the koni's your limit in travel isnt the shocks but the actual room in the fender for the control arm to rise. So your bump stop should be just long enough to hit the shock/hat before the control arm hits the fender.

As far as I know, the only problems with the SPC arm kit was getting them to fit but that seems to have been fixed.

The ball joints people get for the stock arms are different. Theyre taller and end up limiting the travel of the upper arm. After getting bottomed out a few times they seem to get damaged. So far I havent had problems with mine, but they also only probably got 3k miles on them before I put 2 holes in the block.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Excellent information!! Thank you very much