Evo III 16g need help!!

[bcknblk]

I have a 95' TSI and I Ordered The Evo III 16g, I need to know everything that i need to do, what i need to get, (supporting mods and such) if you guys could fill me in with your expertise i would greatly appreciate it!

 

[iboostdoyou]

the reason he said the 14b was faster was because it was running a correct a/f ratio with stock injectors and fuel pump. It is very difficult to just throw injectors in the car and not have anything to tune with. Honestly, if I were you, I would drop the boost down as low as it will go and drive around on the stock injectors until you can get the dsmlink/chip. But do not just drive it on the stock injectors and never do the tuning part!!!!! You probably would be safer on the stock injectors and keeping the rpms/throttle low, as compared to throwing in oversized injectors and running rich all the time. Just be smart with the throttle, blown motors are bad

 

[fwdeclipse]

The website is dsmchips.com.pm Andy Moraitis and tell him your intrested in the keydiver chip.He will look over your mods and give you some settings that you will send to jeff at dsmchips.If you already have an eprom ecu it will only cost 125$.If you got the cash go with dsmlink though, as it is the best.

 

[dragonofbc]

I'm currently running a ported E16g with very limited mods: stock exhaust, stock (rewired) FP, stock injectors, K&N FIPK, stock SMIC, MBC.

My logger tells me that if I go any higher than about 12psi, I start pulling timing so I leave it at that. It can be run on limited mods but know that you are probably going to see a DECREASE in performance until you can get the supporting stuff done. The most airflow I've seen is ~20lbs/min without pulling timing.

 

[ericbev]

So Get the 550s in and run stock boost levels and I should be fine until dsmlink right?
Will I notice any difference in power compared to the stock Turbo?

I would run a larger injector than 550s with the E16G. 550s were the standard long ago when people commonly ran standard 16Gs. The E16G can flow a ton of air, given the opportunity, and can surpass the 80% IDC mark with 550s quite easily on a high boost tune. As long as you plan on not using a SAFC (unless you get a chip), running 660s will add a nice buffer zone to make sure you aerent getting those IDCs into the red zone.

You could run the turbo without fuel mods provided the boost was low enough. But as many people will tell you (like Ye' Old man), running the E16G at low psi means massive boost creep. You would have to do some hefty porting to solve this problem. Getting 20+psi creep with no fuel mods is not good, at all.

Do you still have the T25 laying around?

 

[bcknblk]

Ya I still have the t25 why?

 

[ericbev]

Because you could just run it till you got everything you needed to take advantage of your new turbo. It would make things easier on you.

 

[bcknblk]

Alright my uncle hooked me up with DSMLink but still no 550 or 660 injectors yet, i ordered AFPR, a new MBC..... How hard is it to tune with DSMLink, i just wanna know the basics. I plan on running around 12-15 psi of boost till this summer when i get my job back............ I cant wait to take this baby to the Dyno

 

[ericbev]

One of the wonderful things about DSM-Link is that it is very user friendly. The other wonderful thing is their forums support.

Your uncle hooked you up? He had it on his car and then gave it to you? Explain more about this.

The DSM-Link forums are the real place to get all the info you require, which when you purchase it from them, they personally give you access. If your uncle purchased it new from them, he should have this information. I am not sure if you can transfer this information from person to person etc. but I would definitley try and find out what the deal is.

You can always start out with their user guide for the basics.
http://www.dsmlink.com/DSMLinkV2.5 User's Guide.pdf

Dont go diving into things before you fully understand them. This is critical.

 

[bcknblk]

It was My B-Day on the 24th and i told him that i needed DSM Link so he got it for me

 

[DSMark]

Put your t-25 back on until you can afford all the supporting mods for the car. By the way I think DSM link is overkill for his goals for the car, he should be fine with just an afc. All you really NEED is an FPR, 550cc injectors, 190 or 255lph fuel pump, install kit, and an safc. The 2g mass can handle what you're throwing at it so you won't need a maft setup. Also if you don't have an aftermarket boost and airfuel gauge i suggest you invest some money in those to.

 

[bcknblk]

Put your t-25 back on until you can afford all the supporting mods for the car. By the way I think DSM link is overkill for his goals for the car, he should be fine with just an afc. All you really NEED is an FPR, 550cc injectors, 190 or 255lph fuel pump, install kit, and an safc. The 2g mass can handle what you're throwing at it so you won't need a maft setup. Also if you don't have an aftermarket boost and airfuel gauge i suggest you invest some money in those to.

Dude did you not read the previous post i already have DSM-Link coming in the mail, and how is it an overkill?! Im going to want more power eventually so might as well...... The only supporting mods that i do not have is bigger injectors...... But I just got done reading the DSM-Link Tuning guide and it looks really confusing. Im going to have to do some mad homework b/4 i start tuning my car. Dont really want to put ANOTHER engine in it

 

[iboostdoyou]

yea dont listen to DSMark.... dsmlink is an awesome program and can provide many more tools than the safc could ever offer. Although I personally use a safc, I will not be for much longer. The safc is a technological way of hacking the MAS. Although it works to help solve some a/f issues, that is all it does. Dsmlink has a large variation of functions, one of the greatest in respect to tuning is its control over timing. There are many aspects of dsmlink, but the actual modification of each menu isnt difficult at all. I've played with the program on a few occasions and it is incredibly easy as long as you can use a computer competantly. Your going to want a wideband to tune accurately, or just pay someone to give you a base tune with a clip on wideband (dyno pulls). You can tune your heart out on an safc, but if your pulling timing, it wont do you any good. Dsmlink was a perfect choice for your setup, I am glad you took our advice, it should turn out to be a very good and reliable setup

 

[bcknblk]

what is wideband? And thanks for backing me up with the whole dsmlink thing

 

[bcknblk]

Anyways would i need to get a wideband or could someone who has the similar mods as me /w DSM-Link give me their settings for DSM-Link cause that would be awsome and a lot less stress on me, just throwing it out there, just wondering if it would be possible?!

 

[iboostdoyou]

a wideband is an ACCURATE o2 sensor gauge. The standard air-fuel gauges you see for sale for $60 are garbage, a real a/f gauge is gonna run you around $300 brand new. With dsmlink it isnt completely necessary to have one of these gauges since you can log most of the engine vitals through the program, but a wideband will help you tune on top of that. If your going to have a professional tune the car for you, they most likely will have one of these gauges handy to clip onto your exhaust, so you wont need one. Since your new at this whole modding/tuning deal, I suggest you do not plug the program in and start tuning away. For the safety of the motor, have someone tune the car for you, but watch them do it every step of the way. You'll learn how to use the program in more depth and how to change the settings yourself. Once a pro sets a base tune, you can go in and change it as your mods change or the weather gets different.

 

[bcknblk]

Thats the problem.... the closest place i know that will be able to tune it for me corectly is Fargo and that is 200 miles away from where i live..... isnt there anyone who would be able to just tell me the basics of everything and i could go from there... someone who could just tell me how to get a good base tune?

 

[dsm-onster]

For the record, at a base fuel pressure of 43.5 psi, 550cc injectors flow enough fuel for over 350 horsepower at 80% IDC according to the DSM_Tuning_Sheet_v2.1.xls found elseware on this site. If you want enough for around 380hp w/ 550s, guys have gotten away with raising the fuel pressure to 50 psi without idling and light throttle issues. Even with cams, you're going to need high octane to go beyond that for a high boost track run no matter what injector, as the EVO3 will have to be run at over 26 psi WITH upgraded cams to reach that goal and the EVO3 will be marginally efficient (68-70%). 550s will do just fine for an EVO3 and stock longblock even over 20 psi.

However, it is a great idea to over kill on injectors. You can never have too much injector unless you can't tune it. If it is such a good idea to overkill on injectors, then it is a good idea to overkill on the tunning apparatus. MAFT did great for my at around 300whp and tuning was a cynch. I did not have to get in and out of the car alot as the tuning was so straight forward. DSMLink will allow you to tune ANY size injector quicker than ANY piggyback; the deadtime calibrating will allow you to get a good idle/low-fuel-trim tune; and, having the ecu know exactly what size injectors you actually run, will keep you on the correct timing map and let you advance timing only if you o choose.

A suggestion: if you can get 650cc injectors for $300 and you can get 1000cc injectors for $300, then get the 1000s. DSMLink will let you tune them just as easily and you will have no issues that crop up with running large injectors with SAFC or MAFt. You probable will never need more than what 1000cc injectors give you. But you'll never need to buy again and you'll be paying the same price as for the 650s. I am running into this problem. I have a set of 650s and I'm going to max them out now that I've bought my 60-1. However, I have DSMlink and I could have gotten 1000s for the same price and spent the same time tuning and had the same results with idling and timing control.

The DSMlink forum is intensely helpful in getting you tuned and running well. The DSMLink manual has step by step instructions for getting a base tune in about 15 minutes. If you told ECMtuning what injector brand and flow you have or will get, then they incorporate the most common deadtime and flow compensation numbers typical for that particular injector in the DSMLink chip they give you. For my PTE 650s, all I did was plug and play, as I found that all my fuel trims floated at around 100% (0% in your case). I did not have to do any base tuning. You may infact have too. But, DSMLink is designed for the amature.

A wideband is not needed to get an excellent tune with DSMLink. Just log and tune for 0 knock retard. DSMLink will accept inputs from sensors external to your ecu harness so that you can log them. So it would not be a bad buy, but if you're a little tight on funds, don't bother. You can get a he!! of a tune w/ dsmlink w/out a wideband.

Live by that logger that comes w/ DSMLink. It is, hands down, the greatest logger I have seen to date.

Good job on requesting dsmlink this early in the game . &#@$ all the follow-your-tuning-guide nazis!!! It should have been my very first upgrade!

 

[bcknblk]

another ?s what should i have my FPR set at???

 

[dsm-onster]

another ?s what should i have my FPR set at???

Stock; which, in your case, is 43.5 psi (a 1g will be 37). The DSMLink manual shows you how to calculate what fuel compensation you should be running for whatever fuel pressure you want to run. This means that it is ease to ge quite a bit more out of your injectors. But some have reported idling and light throttle issues going over 50 psi.

 

[bcknblk]

alright is there really anything else that i need to do/get or am missing or what not. or will dsm-link be the missing piece in the puzzle

 

[dsm-onster]

Raise your fuel pressure to 50 psi. And, tune your global fuel setting for such. The Link manual will tell you how to calculate your global settings for this. You probably won't have to tweek your deadtime. But it is possible that your deadtime could slightly increase because of the higher fuel pressure.

This will give you a little more fuel for now... The stock sidemount suffice for short spells of spirited driving.

Always have a cooldown phase for your intercooler and engine (maybe 5 minutes or so):

1. Start at 12 psi. Raise your boost 1-2 psi at a time until you get to 16 psi or so. Don't go above 16 psi on stock injectors and stock sidemount. Keep an eye on injector duty cycle and knock retard.

a. If your getting any knock retard, pull back your timing at that rpm point 1 degree. If you're still getting a little knock, retard it one more degree. If knock still occurs. This is the limit of your boost.
b. If you get to 80%+ injector duty cycle, then you need to realize that you're really being hard on your injectors (450s sell for decent money on ebay), and you need to monitor knock more frequently when running hard; so, set the CEL so that it lights up when you're getting over 5 degrees of knock retard.​

2. Go to you timing sliders and add timing 1 degree at a time just before you get knock.

a. If you get knock at a certain slider bring the timing back to the point just before knock, and go to the next slider and advance.
b. You should be able to have an up-curve shape on your timing slider screen.
c. Keep in mind that you're still running stock air/fuel ratios. Stock ratios will let you really advance the heck out of your timing. Usually you get more power advancing your timing than running leaner. But running leaner, speeds spoolup. And retarding your timing speeds spoolup. Don't advance you timing too much before you tune the fuel curve a little.​

3. Go to your fuel sliders and lean them out in the same manner as when tuning the timing. You don't have a WBO2 so don't bother tuning the fuel until last.

A lower boost, lean, higher timing tune is very fun throughout the rev range. That is the advantage of getting a WBO2 setup: you can tune your fuel to a certain leaner ratio (11.5 works good) and then raise the boost to where you want it, then advance the heck out of the timing. You will need an intercooler upgrade and/or water injection. Get this when you do finally get your injectors. Then retune.

 

[bcknblk]

Raise your fuel pressure to 50 psi. And, tune your global fuel setting for such. The Link manual will tell you how to calculate your global settings for this. You probably won't have to tweek your deadtime. But it is possible that your deadtime could slightly increase because of the higher fuel pressure.

This will give you a little more fuel for now... The stock sidemount suffice for short spells of spirited driving.

Always have a cooldown phase for your intercooler and engine (maybe 5 minutes or so):

1. Start at 12 psi. Raise your boost 1-2 psi at a time until you get to 16 psi or so. Don't go above 16 psi on stock injectors and stock sidemount. Keep an eye on injector duty cycle and knock retard.

a. If your getting any knock retard, pull back your timing at that rpm point 1 degree. If you're still getting a little knock, retard it one more degree. If knock still occurs. This is the limit of your boost.
b. If you get to 80%+ injector duty cycle, then you need to realize that you're really being hard on your injectors (450s sell for decent money on ebay), and you need to monitor knock more frequently when running hard; so, set the CEL so that it lights up when you're getting over 5 degrees of knock retard.​

2. Go to you timing sliders and add timing 1 degree at a time just before you get knock.

a. If you get knock at a certain slider bring the timing back to the point just before knock, and go to the next slider and advance.
b. You should be able to have an up-curve shape on your timing slider screen.
c. Keep in mind that you're still running stock air/fuel ratios. Stock ratios will let you really advance the heck out of your timing. Usually you get more power advancing your timing than running leaner. But running leaner, speeds spoolup. And retarding your timing speeds spoolup. Don't advance you timing too much before you tune the fuel curve a little.​

3. Go to your fuel sliders and lean them out in the same manner as when tuning the timing. You don't have a WBO2 so don't bother tuning the fuel until last.

A lower boost, lean, higher timing tune is very fun throughout the rev range. That is the advantage of getting a WBO2 setup: you can tune your fuel to a certain leaner ratio (11.5 works good) and then raise the boost to where you want it, then advance the heck out of the timing. You will need an intercooler upgrade and/or water injection. Get this when you do finally get your injectors. Then retune.

I wasnt planning on going past 15 psi on the stock SMIC and Injectors once the money comes in Im getting 650s or so and a FMIC.... But thanks for all the advice you have all given me i really appreciate it

 

[97_eclipse_gst]

Would you happen to know the stock feul pressure for a 2g?

 

[dsm-onster]

Would you happen to know the stock feul pressure for a 2g?

43.5 psi base

 

[97_eclipse_gst]

My fuel pressure is 14lbs over stock is that ok or is it to much?