Evo III 16g need help!!

[bcknblk]

I have a 95' TSI and I Ordered The Evo III 16g, I need to know everything that i need to do, what i need to get, (supporting mods and such) if you guys could fill me in with your expertise i would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Guest]

You will need a 2g turbo install kit, bigger injectors, 255lph fuel pump, and a FPR. I think this is all you will NEED.

 

[LaN-]

ok really all you NEEED is a 2g install kit. Your just gonna have to run real low boost

i would say get intercooler, fuel pump (190 or 255 do some research), rewire kit for the fuel pump, Fuel pump reg would be nice, injectors 550's or 660's, something to tune with SAFC, and other minor things but those are the big things you SHOULD get other wise your not gonna see a huge difference between the turbos

 

[iboostdoyou]

well first of all you probably should have researched this before you bought a turbo upgrade, but there are minimal things your gonna need. However, if you want to make any more power than your stock turbo your going to need a pretty good deal of extra mods. Go to the 'tech guide' section at the top of the website and follow the mod list. clutch, bov, ic etc. However, to get the turbo to fit on the car itself, your either going to need an install kit, or if you are good mechanically (jpipe, standard 6" length of rubber tubing for the water lines, and some gaskets)

 

[bcknblk]

I have 255lph walbro, 550cc injectors are coming. What is SAFC, sorry for being such a noob......... do i need a MBC too? I have the Turbo on My car already with 2g install kit.

 

[iboostdoyou]

oh boy, you really should know something about modifying a car before you do it. Honestly, before you do anything else, learn about mods and what they do. A mbc is highly recommended to control boost since you dont have injectors yet. Your going to need an upgraded intercooler since the stocker is garbage. With a 255 pump you could benefit from a fuel pressure regulator to help control that extra fuel coming in to the 550's. A safc is a "super air fuel converter" made by apexi. It is one of the tuning devices you can use to tune the car. You have to alter the signal through the safc to "trick" the motor into thinking there is less air coming into the motor then there really is, so that you can compensate for the larger injectors. However, since you are new to this whole modding thing, I highly suggest you dont do any of this yourself or your next post is gonna be another 'i think i melted a piston, what now?' kinda deal. Look into getting your ecu chipped for your setup. Since you have a 95 you most likely have an eprom ecu and can be worked for your mods.

 

[Derek]

Super Air Fuel Controller.

I would say that you also should look into getting a MAFT setup.

 

[Derek]

Also, I think that the E316g is internally gated at 11psi, so you should be fine.


But yes, that was not a very good idea to get the turbo before even knowing what you are doing.

 

[iboostdoyou]

Thats like the blind leading the blind. Do not bother with the maft. Its a clumsy setup, nearly impossible to tune, and wont give you any real advantage unless your making enough power to outflow the stock maf. Internally gated at 11psi? that only means that the lowest boost you can achieve is 11psi. Does not mean the car will not boost the turbo over that psi without a controller . My t25 without a boost controller was up to 17psi with an intake and exhaust only. The stock wastegate is set at like 8psi I think ... get a mbc, and turn it down all the way to safely run the 11psi your speaking of.

 

[ericbev]

Oh boy. Why didnt you do your homework on this before hand? I never start a project before I fully understand what is involved and what is required to do it correctly. There is a ton of information on this. It is probably better that you dig around for this stuff by yourself than for me to spit it all out at once, but whatever. Here are some installation links to give you an idea of what your getting in to.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/2G-16G.html
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/2G-16G-2.html

Assuming you would buy everything new, the gaskets/goods you would need for just the turbo install are a 7cm turbine housing gasket, 4 - 14mm copper crush washers for the water connections, 2 - 12mm copper crush washers for the oil inlet on the turbocharger, 2 - 10mm copper crush washers for the oil connection at the cylinder head, 2 paper oil drian gaskets for your oil drain tube between the turbo and the oil pan, front and rear water cooling lines, oil return/feed lines, and a J pipe to point that air in the right direction.

All this stuff is often sold as a kit (by almost every vendor) and can be quite pricey. RRE sells a "hacker/tweaker" kit which is cheaper lets you use some stuff you already have in place with some nescescary modification to get things working. Buying all this stuff new isnt recommended, you can reuse alot of it. Here is a link for that information.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g16ginstallkit.htm

As for supporting mods, if you plan on running this turbo to its potential, (which I assume you would) you are going to need a higher flowing fuel pump, larger injectors, an AFPR, as well as some form of engine managment (like a SAFC/Logger combo or DSM-link) to make everything work properly.

You will also end up needing a larger intercooler and a better clutch to hold your new found power without slipping. What kind of boost do you plan on running etc? Give us a little info on whats going on here.

 

[iboostdoyou]

and for the record its converter not controller: taken from the apexi website

The Super AFC II (Air Flow Converter) is the industry standard for sub computer fuel control. The S-AFC II is designed to fine tune and "squeeze" power out of existing engine setups by allowing the user to modify the fuel curve with precision accuracy. Since the act of simply bolting on performance products does not make maximum horsepower, the S-AFC II allows the user to calibrate the fuel system in accordance with performance upgrades as they are installed. The AFC modifies the air flow meter/ pressure sensor signal voltage going to the factory ECU (Engine Control Unit) to change the amount of fuel injected.

 

[zimus]

Thats like the blind leading the blind. Do not bother with the maft. Its a clumsy setup, nearly impossible to tune, and wont give you any real advantage unless your making enough power to outflow the stock maf. Internally gated at 11psi? that only means that the lowest boost you can achieve is 11psi. Does not mean the car will not boost the turbo over that psi without a controller . My t25 without a boost controller was up to 17psi with an intake and exhaust only. The stock wastegate is set at like 8psi I think ... get a mbc, and turn it down all the way to safely run the 11psi your speaking of.

i use the maf translator and found it very easy to tune, a big increase in throttle response, and over all hp increase was well worth the money. the fact that you can run a unrestriced pipe to the turbo and no longer have to recirclate your bov is a plus.

but to the question, get some kind fuel control safc or maft etc. and a fpr. frount mount as well. and as everyone else has said learn more before just buying and throwing it in.

 

[iboostdoyou]

I dont want to get too far off topic here, but when I had my maft setup, I did not see a great increase over the stock 2g mas (still fairly high flowing unit: it is an upgrade for 1g's). I hated the fact that I had to pop my hood and turn knobs to get my car to idle correctly with every change in weather. To me, adding 4 extra sources of a boost leak and hit or miss knob style tuning was not worth the minimal power it provided, so I sold it, live and learn. If I had a much faster setup it may have been more beneficial. But for a new member, I would suggest against getting it to tune with.

 

[ericbev]

I need to know everything that i need to do, what i need to get.

He doesnt need a GM MAS or MAFT to get this project moving. From what I am seeing, that is the last thing he needs right now. I am not sure why you even suggested it. Lets try and stay on topic and stay focused on anwsering his specific question.

 

[iboostdoyou]

Agreed, follow the power upgrades found here: http://www.dsmtuner.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/

and think about other mods to help that power along: suspension, tires etc. It's not hard to get the turbo to be maximized, just takes a good deal of time and money. Read and learn, spend and mod later

p.s. - since you have a 95, check to make sure you have an eprom ecu (most do, but just double check). The way to find out if you have an eprom or not can be found on www.vfaq.com. Since you probably have such a good ecu, use it to your advantage. Either get it chipped or go the dsmlink route. Your going to have to use some type of tuning, you might as well do it correctly the first time!

 

[bcknblk]

Alright I guess i didnt really fill you guys in on the whole "picture" so here is my story......
I bought the car about 2 years ago just for a daily driver. then about 9 months after i bought it I blew the motor. I got a used Eclipse engine from my friend who totaled his car then everything was going fine until about september 15 when i hit a van going 45mph so it has been in my shop for the past 4 1/2 months. I had some money saved up so i bought the Evo III (along with all the body parts that i had to buy fender, hood, radiator, ect.) But like all of you had said i should have really done my homework before i start modding my car......... Let me recap a little bit on all the stuff that i need.. I need FPR to support the 255lph, SAFC or Dsmlink, MBC...... What im looking to get out of the car right now is around 280-300hp i have not the money right now to do anything to drastic to it. I appreciate all of your information

 

[iboostdoyou]

yea the more information we have the easier it is to answer the question, but it is going to be tough to get 280-300 out of the car with that stock ic, it is terribly inefficient and will making tuning a nightmare. Also wouldnt be a bad idea to port everything out (manifold, turbo, and 02 housing) to get it all to flow nicely, but isnt completely necessary. You can tune with an safc, but your going to need something to tune against (wideband or logging software). This is why I recommended dsmlink to you (tuning and logging built into one package, plus you do not need to spend the $200+ on an eprom since you already have one on the car stock ). The dsmlink is more expensive, but an all around incredibly better way of tuning the car than the safc. Do all that stuff with a good tune, and you should be able to reach your goal

 

[bcknblk]

What would I gain if i just ran the stock boost level until i can afford dsmlink?

 

[iboostdoyou]

You can run about 10-11psi on an evo3 with the boost turned down all the way. On stock injectors you can get by ok as long as you dont pull to redline. You'll hit fuel cut pretty badly with those 450's in there in the upper rpms. You really wont see any incredible gains over the t25 with such a low level of boost. The low end power will feel much better than the t25 and it will pull stronger, but really will not be any faster. Driving with the turbo on stock injectors and no tuning can be done, but not really safely and I would really recommend against it. Get the tuning asap, along with some larger injectors in order to run the turbo safely, or higher levels of boost.

 

[bcknblk]

So Get the 550s in and run stock boost levels and I should be fine until dsmlink right?
Will I notice any difference in power compared to the stock Turbo?

 

[fwdeclipse]

Do you have a aftermarket boost guage.If you bought that turbo as is no porting or no 34mm flapper,that turbo will creep well past 20psi.If you dont have a boost guage I would get one.

 

[fwdeclipse]

With nothing to tune the 550s you will run way rich and it probably wont be much faster.Two years ago I did the same thing you did and just threw on a e16g with some 550s, and the car was much faster with the 14b I had put on it.If you cant get dsm-link anytime soon,look into a keydiver chip.Andy moraitis hooked me up with some custom settings and it is unreal how it helped.

 

[97_eclipse_gst]

With the EVO III 16g would i need to get a new wastegaste and/or 02 sensor or anytihng else like a different manifold? and if i bought the turbo for a 2g where could i get the install kit or would it come with it?

 

[oldman]

Boost Creep !!!!

 

[bcknblk]

With nothing to tune the 550s you will run way rich and it probably wont be much faster.Two years ago I did the same thing you did and just threw on a e16g with some 550s, and the car was much faster with the 14b I had put on it.If you cant get dsm-link anytime soon,look into a keydiver chip.Andy moraitis hooked me up with some custom settings and it is unreal how it helped.

So it ran faster with stock boost levels? It sounds like to me thhat you are talking about two different turbos 14b and 16g, can you give me a link or somthing for the keydriver chip possibly????? Thanks

I do have aftermarket booost guage