EVO 3 16g Dissapointing Results!

[90GSX17]

Dare I say, i'm already bored of my EVO 3 16g but I finally got my car tuned right about 1 week ago, i'm running a EVO 3 16g with all the supporting fuel mods, and a SAFC and AEM UEGO Wideband etc. i'm running the turbo between 18-20psi on the street and haven't really turned up the boost any higher, because i'm a candy-ass and wanna get a better HG and head studs first. Although with the turbo turned up to 20psi it doesn't give that kick like others cars i've rode in. A friend of mine has a GT30R on his eclipse and when it hits, it's just a big surge of power all at once, but the Evo3 16g just seems more linear and not like a big hit which is what I want. I know the Evo3 16g can be taken to like 25-26psi but I don't think i'll run that on pump gas and really think I ran outta room on power, what would be a good replacement that would give a good thump in the chest as it hits full boost but still retain the ability to be a bolt-on turbo for a 1st Gen AWD, I plan on keeping this car on stock internals so nothing really crazy like a GT35R. My goal is around 375-400AWHP on stock internals.

I was looking at some Precision Turbos and I was wondering if this turbo would be good for my goals.
http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=2209&

 

[illeffekt vr-4]

is it a true MHI evo3 or one of those ebay knock offs? any boost leaks? you haven't mentioned any other mods. you will need bigger injectors and at least a rewired pump with that turbo, if not a 190 or 255.

with the proper supporting mods a genuine evo3 will put down 350hp.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

Oh dont tell me that my next turbo is going to be an evo 3 and I've heard so many good things about it i don't want to be disapointed. The last car that i rode in with a evo 3 was fast so im hoping to have the same good luck that my friend had.

 

[90GSX17]

is it a true MHI evo3 or one of those ebay knock offs? any boost leaks? you haven't mentioned any other mods. you will need bigger injectors and at least a rewired pump with that turbo, if not a 190 or 255.

with the proper supporting mods a genuine evo3 will put down 350hp.

sorry, I didn't list mods but I have all supporting fuel mods. No boost leaks and it's been tuned. The turbo is a true MHI Evo3. I'm running 650cc injectors, rewired walbro 190, safc II (black version) AEM Wideband and a ebay FMIC.

 

[JayRolla]

If you are staying with the stock internals I would not upgrade the turbo. You should beable to get close to 350whp on pump with that turbo and I would not take a stock long block any further. My brothers car is tuned at 17psi 300whp and the power hits hard and fast. These are fast spooling turbos, it almost sounds like you are having lag issues.

 

[90GSX17]

If you are staying with the stock internals I would not upgrade the turbo. You should beable to get close to 350whp on pump with that turbo and I would not take a stock long block any further. My brothers car is tuned at 17psi 300whp and the power hits hard and fast. These are fast spooling turbos, it almost sounds like you are having lag issues.

yeah I really don't know what the problem could be, at first someone said check and see if your clutch is holding the power, but I doubt it would even make my ACT 2600 slip, I just installed it about 2 weeks ago.

 

[andymoraitis]

The EVO III is pretty much nothing special at 20 psi. At 24-25 psi it's a different animal. The fact that you run an AFC leads you into a tail chase between timing and boost and you'll never get out of that as long as it's your only source of fuel control. If you could limit the timing to something like 16-18 degrees you'd be able to see 24-25 psi on pump and enjoy the turbo more.

I'd recommend a custom Keydiver chip with an EPROM ECU. Pre-programmed fuel and timing tables would allow you get into a higher boost range and really wake the motor up.

I wouldn't even worry about the stock head studs and gasket at those power levels as I've run more boost than that on my old 2.0 stocker. Paul Volk (99gst_racer) recently put down over 400 to the wheel on a bone stock motor and cams with a T3 50 trim and DSM Link. It's all in the tuning. Speaking of tuning, you mentioned that you have a wideband. What was it reading at WOT?

As far as choosing a 60-1, that thing's made for larger injectors than what you have (impossible to tune properly on an AFC) and becomes more efficient at high boost. In actuality that would better suit my setup than yours.

 

[90GSX17]

The EVO III is pretty much nothing special at 20 psi. At 24-25 psi it's a different animal. The fact that you run an AFC leads you into a tail chase between timing and boost and you'll never get out of that as long as it's your only source of fuel control. If you could limit the timing to something like 16-18 degrees you'd be able to see 24-25 psi on pump and enjoy the turbo more.

I'd recommend a custom Keydiver chip with an EPROM ECU. Pre-programmed fuel and timing tables would allow you get into a higher boost range and really wake the motor up.

I wouldn't even worry about the stock head studs and gasket at those power levels as I've run more boost than that on my old 2.0 stocker. Paul Volk (99gst_racer) recently put down over 400 to the wheel on a bone stock motor and cams with a T3 50 trim and DSM Link. It's all in the tuning. Speaking of tuning, you mentioned that you have a wideband. What was it reading at WOT?

As far as choosing a 60-1, that thing's made for larger injectors than what you have (impossible to tune properly on an AFC) and becomes more efficient at high boost. In actuality that would better suit my setup than yours.

my AFR at WOT was 11:1. I've been looking at those chips on dsmchips.com are 1993 DSM eprom or not?

 

[andymoraitis]

AFR is fine.

I still think your tuning device is crap and that's always going to create the tail chase I alluded to above.

 

[90GSX17]

AFR is fine.

I still think your tuning device is crap and that's always going to create the tail chase I alluded to above.

yeah I know that's gotta be holding me back, so with the EPROM chip it should help out alot, because I have no logger or anything to montior if my car is pulling timing or anything like that, the SAFC can only montior knock sum, but I haven't run into any knock as we tuned it.

 

[andymoraitis]

When you pick up an EPROM ECU, drop me a PM and I'll do a phone consultation with you to talk about your setup and the chip settings that'll make a night and day difference in how the car feels and how much boost you can run. You can then pass those along to Jeff at DSM Chips and he'll burn those settings for you and ship you the chip.

I've helped tons of people with issues like this and the car is always faster after the custom tuned chip vs. just tuning with the AFC. Most people refer to it as night and day.

Let me know when you're ready.

Andy

P.S. The AFC knocksum feature is highly inaccurate. The Keydiver chip will however show you knock on the stock boost gauge and it's one of the most useful tuning features built in to it.

 

[96EclipseNA]

sorry, I didn't list mods but I have all supporting fuel mods. No boost leaks and it's been tuned. The turbo is a true MHI Evo3. I'm running 650cc injectors, rewired walbro 190, safc II (black version) AEM Wideband and a ebay FMIC.

there is your problem right there. You have a 190 in and not a 255, u cannot do anything higher unless u put in a 255 because the 190 will not allow the right amount of fuel into the motor to spool the turbo correct.

 

[90GSX17]

When you pick up an EPROM ECU, drop me a PM and I'll do a phone consultation with you to talk about your setup and the chip settings that'll make a night and day difference in how the car feels and how much boost you can run. You can then pass those along to Jeff at DSM Chips and he'll burn those settings for you and ship you the chip.

I've helped tons of people with issues like this and the car is always faster after the custom tuned chip vs. just tuning with the AFC. Most people refer to it as night and day.

Let me know when you're ready.

Andy

P.S. The AFC knocksum feature is highly inaccurate. The Keydiver chip will however show you knock on the stock boost gauge and it's one of the most useful tuning features built in to it.

so once I purchase the chip, will I need to get a palm pilot or some sort of logger? also does it matter which stage I get?

 

[90GSX17]

there is your problem right there. You have a 190 in and not a 255, u cannot do anything higher unless u put in a 255 because the 190 will not allow the right amount of fuel into the motor to spool the turbo correct.

I don't think that's my problem, I have well over enough fuel for my setup.

 

[Lindeberg]

You are not maximizing the full potential of your turbo with the fuel mods you listed. I dont want to jump on the bandwagon but get DSMlink. It seriously has been the greatest purchase, and also a 255 wouldnt hurt

Dont give up on your turbo, you havent even reached it full potential. Bigger is not always better

 

[JayRolla]

You guys are all crazy. The 190 is more than enough for the boost he is pushing. The 190lph is rated to handle more air flow than the evo 16g can put out. Andy did say he ran out of fuel when he installed cams on his 2.0 if I remember right?

 

[andymoraitis]

You guys are all crazy. The 190 is more than enough for the boost he is pushing. The 190lph is rated to handle more air flow than the evo 16g can put out. Andy did say he ran out of fuel when he installed cams on his 2.0 if I remember right?

Jason is absolutely correct. A re-wired 190 is MORE than enough for that turbo. I only changed mine out because the cams raised the VE to the point at which I needed more fuel. Mine was also unrewired and it really showed it's weakness on the 2.3 with cams. Since I added the 255 HP, the knock issues I was having previously have gone away. Any knock I have now is not the result of inadequate fuel volume to the rail.

For the original poster, a logger isn't a necessity but I like to borrow a friend's to at least log airflow. Since you can see timing being pulled on the stock boost gauge it's not essential but it's a good idea to have one so you can read trouble codes. You may not use it that often but it's still a useful tool. As far as the chip stage, by the time we're done with everything you'll need you'll have a Stage III.

Bigger is not always better

Tell that to my 2.3!

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The "feeling" you're thinking of it what I like about turbo cars too. Is it possible that you can achieve this "feeling" by altering your driving?

If you are cruising at 3400rpm in 3rd and then just stomp the gas I have a sneaking suspicion that you'd get the feeling you're after.

 

[JayRolla]

The the OP what kind of timing are you seeing by redline at 20psi on those 650's. I bet your hitting close to 28* and thats most likely your problem as Andy has said.

Im have a safc also and I went with 550's so I dont pull timing as bad. Im going to install meth injection to compensate for the high timing and pray I can run 24-26psi with just the meth and safc. We will see, if not I will get a keydriver chip or dsmlink.

 

[90GSX17]

The the OP what kind of timing are you seeing by redline at 20psi on those 650's. I bet your hitting close to 28* and thats most likely your problem as Andy has said.

Im have a safc also and I went with 550's so I dont pull timing as bad. Im going to install meth injection to compensate for the high timing and pray I can run 24-26psi with just the meth and safc. We will see, if not I will get a keydriver chip or dsmlink.

Last time I checked I think it's around 25-26 degrees of timing being pulled, I just thought about that a few hours ago, I will be going with meth injection as well for reassurance, my friend put a kit on his car and it made a really big difference, he said you know the feeling your car has when it's a cold morning and it's running really good, he said it never feels like your car gets tired or hot anymore, he said it pulls just like it would on a cold morning all the time.

 

[illeffekt vr-4]

at first someone said check and see if your clutch is holding the power, but I doubt it would even make my ACT 2600 slip, I just installed it about 2 weeks ago.

did you break it in properly with at least 500 miles of city driving (mostly stop and go)??

 

[JayRolla]

Im surprised your not pulling even higher timing with the 650's. Im pulling about the same with 550's. Also with the meth its way better than a cold day. Its like running race gas. You can almost run unlimited timing and boost, to a point. My mechanic is running e85 and works even better.

 

[90GSX17]

did you break it in properly with at least 500 miles of city driving (mostly stop and go)??

yeah I broke it in to a certain extent, but puck clutches don't really need to be, but I did it just to be safe I got the 6-puck sprung race disc, I would have went with the street disc, but I wanted something that would hold just about any abuse I threw at it, even with the clutch sprung I still get a tad bit more clutch chatter in stop and go traffic than i'd like.

 

[JayRolla]

You can tell the difference between lag and a slipping clutch. The motor will rev and boost but wont go anywhere, then it will catch a little.