Evo 1 Gsr Awd Lsd Transmission In 2g

[twicks69]

That is a viscous front lsd, it is only usable with the proper axle cup, same goes with the front diff ring gear, it can only fit the viscous front diff housing.

Evo 1 uses large diameter 3/4 hub and slider with 3-hole 3/4 shift fork and matching rail.

 

[donniekak]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Pull the cap off that center diff and see if the shim is welded to the cap, and check the spider gear shims while you're in there. You should check what rear end gears you have as well.

 

[keltalon]

Pull the cap off that center diff and see if the shim is welded to the cap, and check the spider gear shims while you're in there. You should check what rear end gears you have as well.

will do thanks.

That is a viscous front lsd, it is only usable with the proper axle cup, same goes with the front diff ring gear, it can only fit the viscous front diff housing.

Evo 1 uses large diameter 3/4 hub and slider with 3-hole 3/4 shift fork and matching rail.

So tim what do I need and need to change in order to get the tranny right?

 

[pimpy rider]

ive

If your trans has the large synchro 3-4 you'll want to toss those parts in the trash, as the large synchro 3-4 uses the 2g style hub/slider that explodes over about 400ft/lbs.

are you saying the 90 style 3/4 is the best setup?
i always thought the 91-up style was better, just has weaker shift fork

 

[donniekak]

ive


are you saying the 90 style 3/4 is the best setup?
i always thought the 91-up style was better, just has weaker shift fork

The 90-92.5 small hub/slider is much stronger than the big synchro parts in the 93-99 transmissions. It doesn't shift as well, but the evo3 double synchro 3-4 setup that does shift well uses the same type small diameter hub/slider.

The 93-99 3-4 sliders explode well before the gears themselves tend to loose teeth.

 

[pimpy rider]

okay thanks for the reply and the info, im not throwing my beautiful double synchros in the trash tho!! haha
im not even close to 400tq anyways, maybe 250 haha

 

[keltalon]

Pull the cap off that center diff and see if the shim is welded to the cap, and check the spider gear shims while you're in there. You should check what rear end gears you have as well.

I removed the cap and it showed signs of dislike. Will post pics later

Okay after reading non stop for several days and finding a lot of helpful information I now know the route I am going to take. First I am very intrigued about the ratio of these gears and think they will be perfect for what I love doing 1/2 mile racing which doesn't require hard launches. I Spoke with liberty gear about face plating 3 and 4th gears with custom hub they said no problem. I feel this will eliminate the weak hub slider issue. 2nd I am going to purchase a front lsd and eliminate the issue associated with short axles and wrong ring gear. 3rd center diff will be sent out this week for 4 spider upgrades. Purchasing all rebuild sychronizer , seals and bearings this week.last all gears will go through the same process as did the fwd tranny in this order cryo, rem finished and then wpctreatment. I will update thread accordingly. Thanks guys!

Ok there's a change in front diff plans we figured out how to use what's already in this tranny. there no axle issue on the wqwe coded tranny which we have confirmed. as far as the crown ring gear I have one that matches the current tranfer case at the shop 58 tooth that will be modified to fit the lsd front differential. So far seem logical.

 

[twicks69]

It is not possible, the ring gear would have to get significant machining to a hardened gear. The viscous lad front diff requires a special axle stub.

Is this going in a AWD car or being converted to your fwd car?

Do not throw anything away from that box. That has a forged/broached 1/2, 3/4, 5/R hub and slider assemblies. Though I agree, the liberty 3/4 hub slider faceplate conversion is more durable.

I have significant experience with this transmission, and I run the 1/2 gearset in my transmission.

Nearly every part of that transmission is discontinued as well.

 

[bastarddsm]

Be careful of what 4 spider shaft you use. This one had a few thousand miles on it with a dozen launches. It killed a new gearset too when it broke.

Tre machined the housing and it had the upper Torrington bearing done as well. I also did the oil pump scoops on the cd housing to try and keep it from Galling the shaft a second time.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Check the first image here - https://www.google.ca/search?q=evo viscous gear&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI06DT5PbOyAIVFPJjCh0Z4w2i&biw=1366&bih=696#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=evo viscous crown wheel&imgrc=Pgd00vV-ASC_iM:

Something similar has been tried - apparently an auto trans crown wheel (right) machined to fit the dimensions of the Evo viscous crown wheel (left). Total cost was $800 for machining, according to the person who had it done. Cost effectiveness aside, I still wouldn't recommend doing this.

 

[donniekak]

It's not worth dumping thousands of dollars, and weeks of time into a transmission with stock 3rd and 4th gears. You may want to look up some info on the boldt mechanics 3-4 gear set.

 

[bastarddsm]

Yep ^ Kelton, I'd wager no matter what you do the trans, if your car is really making 800Whp and you run stock gears, your trans will last less than 50 1-4 rips.

your FWD kinda held up because it was always spinning the tires.

 

[91 GSX]

I've personally messaged Bolt Mechanics 2 times in the last 6/8 months with no response, most recently just 2 weeks ago. Please post info on pricing, gear ratio availability, raw materials used if possible.

 

[bastarddsm]

It'll be ballpark 2500 IIRC, and I'm sure its 9310 or an European derivative of it.

Gear ratios are going to be close to stock, as there isn't much wiggle room in there any way. (3-4) atleast

 

[keltalon]

It is not possible, the ring gear would have to get significant machining to a hardened gear. The viscous lad front diff requires a special axle stub.

Is this going in a AWD car or being converted to your fwd car?

Do not throw anything away from that box. That has a forged/broached 1/2, 3/4, 5/R hub and slider assemblies. Though I agree, the liberty 3/4 hub slider faceplate conversion is more durable.

I have significant experience with this transmission, and I run the 1/2 gearset in my transmission.

Nearly every part of that transmission is discontinued as well.

Tim this transmission was in the car and operating. I drove the car everyday since I bought it 3 weeks ago until I decided to pull the transmission to replace the slipping clutch and noticed the serial numbers was different. The axle had no problem with fitment. I read somewhere that maybe WQWE tranny is not the one with the axles fitment issue it was the W5M33-2-NRWE 92-95 Lancer GSR, Viscous Front LSD, 3.545 ratio I don't have experience but I do know the current axles fit perfect with no issues . The tool and die shop today lathe the center radius of an old 1995 gsx crown ring 3.545 58 tooth to fit over the LSD now the ring gear matches the 64 tooth ring gear that came off the car in the center, the only thing that's left is drilling the holes for the bolts to go through so it can be attached to the front diff. As soon and I get it back I will post pictures. This tranny was in my recently acquired awd project car although the drivetrain wasn't set up the correct way.

Yep ^ Kelton, I'd wager no matter what you do the trans, if your car is really making 800Whp and you run stock gears, your trans will last less than 50 1-4 rips.

your FWD kinda held up because it was always spinning the tires.

You think so? The car made 801wheel fwd don't know how much will be lost through the awd trans. I do keep hearing horror stories of awd transmission failures. I don't have intention of monster launches by no means maybe she'll stay together for a while

Check the first image here - https://www.google.ca/search?q=evo viscous gear&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI06DT5PbOyAIVFPJjCh0Z4w2i&biw=1366&bih=696#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=evo viscous crown wheel&imgrc=Pgd00vV-ASC_iM:

Something similar has been tried - apparently an auto trans crown wheel (right) machined to fit the dimensions of the Evo viscous crown wheel (left). Total cost was $800 for machining, according to the person who had it done. Cost effectiveness aside, I still wouldn't recommend doing this.

Why Canadian? Just curious

 

[donniekak]

You think so? The car made 801wheel fwd don't know how much will be lost through the awd trans. I do keep hearing horror stories of awd transmission failures. I don't have intention of monster launches by no means maybe she'll stay together for a while

I've never broke a transmission launching. I have broke around 7-8 of them doing 3-4 gear pulls.

 

[keltalon]

It's not worth dumping thousands of dollars, and weeks of time into a transmission with stock 3rd and 4th gears. You may want to look up some info on the boldt mechanics 3-4 gear set.

Don I see what you are saying, but is it the gears that's weak or the hub slider.

I've never broke a transmission launching. I have broke around 7-8 of them doing 3-4 gear pulls.

Oh snap.

 

[TSi-Rocket]

Kel you may know this already but just in case, use the front pinion shaft that came out of the 2g trans with the 58tooth ring gear. The evo 1 pinion is 15tooth but has a different gear profile and is smaller in diameter.

 

[keltalon]

Kel you may know this already but just in case, use the front pinion shaft that came out of the 2g trans with the 58tooth ring gear. The evo 1 pinion is 15tooth but has a different gear profile and is smaller in diameter.

Thanks for the heads up , Yeah bro I am on top of it.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is similar to what mine will look like finished.

 

[donniekak]

Don I see what you are saying, but is it the gears that's weak or the hub slider.

Both. The large diameter sliders tend to explode after 400ft/lbs, and the gears begin shearing teeth at 450-500ft/lbs on a regular basis.

This is what I do, and I put a lot of miles on my car, 20,000+ per year. I get good cores, replace the intermediate shaft bearings, synchros, and hub/sliders/gears as needed. If I'm launching a lot I throw in a welded center, if not, I've never broke a stock center diff from a roll. Around 10,000 miles or so it will strip the teeth off of 3rd or 4th and usually put a hole in the case, and trash every other gear in the box. Rinse and repeat, I always have a spare ready to go. I end up with an average of $500 in each trans.

 

[keltalon]

Be careful of what 4 spider shaft you use. This one had a few thousand miles on it with a dozen launches. It killed a new gearset too when it broke.

Tre machined the housing and it had the upper Torrington bearing done as well. I also did the oil pump scoops on the cd housing to try and keep it from Galling the shaft a second time.

who did the first one that broke? I am sending mine off this week somewhere.

 

[mavericktsi83]

I would 2nd Bastarddsm’s educated guess on longevity and Donnie’s general sentiments on diminishing returns and failure mode.

I plan to do some experimenting with a trans cooler—I’m starting to put one together here in the off-season and will see how it effects gear life next summer. I do not run 1/2 mile events like Keltalon but on the street I have seen temps spike in the 235F range when aggressively driven—the goal is to add oil capacity, increase lubrication, bring down temps & stabilize them with the hope to put less fatigue/heat cycling on the gears w/ the return spraying cooled-oil on the weak-link (3rd & 4th gears).

I am seriously considering switching to a set of Boldt Mechanics 3rd and 4th gears in the future (prob near future ). My main reservation in doing so is the lack of feedback/details and the fact that a straight cut gear is actually weaker than the same-sized helical gear, contrary to popular belief. I’m not trying to imply that Boldt Mechanics product is indeed weaker and I do appreciate their innovation and product offering as it is needed on this platform. It would be beneficial to learn more about these gears and gather a consensus as they may be the solution in keeping transmissions together for setups similar to the OP. Anyone on here run these gears and care to comment on strength/durability/longevity if possible? @twicks69 if you don’t mind sharing: do you happen to have any customer feedback on these gears?

Keltalon, curious on what the faceplate conversion, cryo, rem and wpc treatment all ends up coming to (est. cost)? Whatever you decide I hope it works well for you! Subscribed.

 

[TSi-Rocket]

I made a couple videos with my gopro when I rebuilt my evo 1 and tried to explain the differences in the evo 1, early 91, and 92+. I could have made better videos but I did most of the work on Fridays after working 3rd all night and staying up working on the trans for another 6hrs... Making quality videos was not my priority and I had really horrible commentary in the background so they never made it to youtube.

Also kel a lot of ppl will recommend welding the ctd but it may not fit what your doing. The problem with the ctd diff is as it spins it throws all the oil out of the ctd (where jacks scoops came from, Tim and John/tre advised against)which causes the upper pinion and thrust washer to go dry and they weld themselves to the to cover. My pops and I discussed this issue his thoughts were driving long distances (aka highway) the ctd diff will starve for oil bc its getting pushed/thrown out of the diff, he thought it would be best if making a long tip to stop every so often for some low speed driving to let some oil into the ctd. ^^Reason for the Torrington bearing. I have taken apart 8 ctd and one was mint and a second had a good top cap/thrust washer/ and upper pinion. Moral? If you weld it... you don't have to worry.

 

[bastarddsm]

You think so? The car made 801wheel fwd don't know how much will be lost through the awd trans. I do keep hearing horror stories of awd transmission failures. I don't have intention of monster launches by no means maybe she'll stay together for a while

Oh I know so, I have a stack of broken shit just like Donnie. I got to where I keep a golf clicker in my car and at 100 passes I pull the trans and inspect it. Usually isn't far from shitting the bed.

who did the first one that broke? I am sending mine off this week somewhere.

Had 2 cross shafts from the same place, TRE machined and shot peened the CD housing/gears both times. The shaft is advertised as unbreakable.

 

[twicks69]

Kurt, you are literally one of the only person that has had a problem with that cross-shaft. I have a metric ton of them sold over the last 6 or 7 years. One other person who purchased just the part, just like you did, ended up galling his due to using used/worn spider gears on a housing that was not machined properly and was set up too tight.

I still have my original cross shaft in my transmission now for over 8 years, the entire time over 700AWHP of street and track time.

If I recall, I also replaced the first one free of charge out of my pocket, and told you the second time that you should take it up with Beyond Redline who makes the shafts for me. Yours is the only one I know of that has ever actually broken.