Engine shuts down while driving but starts again after waiting

[DSMxJB]

Okay, so a few months ago while cruising around town my cars engine shut down. I got it to start again right away and made it maybe half a mile down the road before it shut down again. After about 15 minutes I got it started and it didn't do it again until recently. About a week ago it died and after waiting a little bit it started and it did it a couple more times, then it didn't show itself until yesterday. Now I can't even get the car to go 1 mile without dying. I had to limp it home from my girlfriends house yesterday. Exactly what happening is, I will be driving around town normally then the engine will lose power. All my electronics work except my cluster. I've tried "push" starting it since I'm rolling when it dies (it hasn't done it idling) by popping the clutch and I can hear it come on but the cluster doesn't show anything and I can't do anything. It will just coast until I'm stopped. After sitting for about 10 minutes the cluster will work again and it'll start right up. I took it out around my neighborhood just now and logged it so I will post that up, and I also made a video of me starting it after it died to show what the cluster is doing. I noticed today the alarm chirps when I pull the key out, but only sometimes and this is only when the cluster isn't working. I've tried arming and disarming it and putting it in valet mode but none of that makes a difference. I don't really know where to begin, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Electrical mods:

Apexi turbo timer
Prosport evo gauges
HID retrofitted headlights
Clifford iq800 or iq8000 alarm system
ECMlink v3 Full/ EPROM ECU


Here is the video
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr_7mWeqIkg[/ame]
The car finally starts at 1:40

I should also add that I thought it could be the turbo timer so I uninstalled it and it didn't change a thing.

 

[DSMxJB]

So I pulled my ECU today because I thought that could be the cause. There seems to be some white substance like something is leaking on it. I'm thinking this may be the issue. I put my stock ecu back in the car and drove it around for about 30 minutes with no issues.

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Could this be my issue? Do I need a new EPROM? This doesn't look right to me.

 

[BogusSVO]

Wow ... this is not in my league!
But I have heard of this issue, "Leaky/leaking caps" They need replaced.
Most the time it can be fixed.

There should be supporting vendors and freelancers that do this.

I know there is more to it, and those who know will speak up.

 

[DSMxJB]

Wow ... this is not in my league!
But I have heard of this issue, "Leaky/leaking caps" They need replaced.
Most the time it can be fixed.

There should be supporting vendors and freelancers that do this.

I know there is more to it, and those who know will speak up.

Thank you for the response. If it can be fixed that would be great! If not I don't have a problem paying for a new one. Could this be what is causing my car to suddenly cut the engine?

 

[steve]

The white substance is leftover dissolved conformal coating. That capacitor has been replaced and the person used the wrong solvent to remove the coating under the capacitor and was a little messy in the process but it shouldn't by itself cause a problem.

Lets see the rest of the ECU.

In your first log at 432 seconds into the first one it look like the RPM and airflow signals start breaking up. The same thing happens at 43 seconds in the second log. In both cases the ECU thinks the throttle just closed, the engine is decelerating and the injectors are cut off. Can say if this is an ECU issue or if you have a problem with the wiring to the engine.

 

[DSMxJB]

The white substance is leftover dissolved conformal coating. That capacitor has been replaced and the person used the wrong solvent to remove the coating under the capacitor and was a little messy in the process but it shouldn't by itself cause a problem.

Lets see the rest of the ECU.

In your first log at 432 seconds into the first one it look like the RPM and airflow signals start breaking up. The same thing happens at 43 seconds in the second log. In both cases the ECU thinks the throttle just closed, the engine is decelerating and the injectors are cut off. Can say if this is an ECU issue or if you have a problem with the wiring to the engine.

Okay, if I remember correctly it had been refurbished. So that would explain the residue. I took a few pics of both sides of the ecu so Ill post those now. Well I hope it is the ecu. I've driven it about 20 miles today on the stock ecu and no problems yet. I also drove about 20 miles last night with no problems.

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[steve]

I don't see anything obvious wrong with the ECU. Too bad TapaTalk reduces the resolution so low.

The sensor ground trace is intact. All the electrolytic capacitors have been replaced. The traces to the EPROM socket look intact. None of the driver chips look fried. Just the less than perfect removal of the conformal coating and not recoating after.

Exactly what happening is, I will be driving around town normally then the engine will lose power. All my electronics work except my cluster.

I missed this the first time. This is not an indication of an ECU problem but a problem with the electrical system and consistent with the failure in the log where it looks like the power to a couple of sensors goes away. You see the signals get spikey and decay to 0, but not all of them, and the ECU looks to still be actively logging.

Have you shared these logs with the guys on the DSMLink forum. They might have seen something like this before and have some ideas on what's failing.

 

[DSMxJB]

I don't see anything obvious wrong with the ECU. Too bad TapaTalk reduces the resolution so low.

The sensor ground trace is intact. All the electrolytic capacitors have been replaced. The traces to the EPROM socket look intact. None of the driver chips look fried. Just the less than perfect removal of the conformal coating and not recoating after.



I missed this the first time. This is not an indication of an ECU problem but a problem with the electrical system and consistent with the failure in the log where it looks like the power to a couple of sensors goes away. You see the signals get spikey and decay to 0, but not all of them, and the ECU looks to still be actively logging.

Have you shared these logs with the guys on the DSMLink forum. They might have seen something like this before and have some ideas on what's failing.

I didn't realize taps talk was doing that. I can reload anything from my computer if that would be better. Okay, well I was really hoping it was the ecu, it seemed like the easiest fix. One reason I was thinking it was a ecu related problem is that I read in another thread that the CEL not coming on when the ignition is on is a sign of the ecu not working. If you notice in the video when the ignition is on the CEL doesn't come on until the end and then it starts. In the same post i read that random dying and not starting right away is a symptom of a bad ecu. Ill have to review my logs again. I'm still very new to ecmlink but I thought they would be helpful. No, I've hardly used the ecmlink forums but I will post it over there as well. By the way, when the car dies ecmlink stops logging until the cel comes on and it starts.

 

[eclipsyco]

Hey try cleaning that white stuff of with some contact cleaner and a soft tooth brush (I work as IT that thing do wonders on computers) and try it out once more.
I do agree with Steve about the conformal coating but it should be all over the place also those are no OE capacitors (they don't have like an X on top of them) and probably they are leaking from underneath even if one capacitor is going bad the ecu will hold power for some time until it fails and the more you use it the sooner it will start failing.
Those capacitors don't cost more than a few dollars try changing them and test again. If it still fails then is what Steve says.

 

[DSMxJB]

Hey try cleaning that white stuff of with some contact cleaner and a soft tooth brush (I work as IT that thing do wonders on computers) and try it out once more.
I do agree with Steve about the conformal coating but it should be all over the place also those are no OE capacitors (they don't have like an X on top of them) and probably they are leaking from underneath even if one capacitor is going bad the ecu will hold power for some time until it fails and the more you use it the sooner it will start failing.
Those capacitors don't cost more than a few dollars try changing them and test again. If it still fails then is what Steve says.

Okay, I will try that. Well its everywhere on the board, it just seemed excessive in certain areas. Okay, that's good to know. I'm beginning to think it's the wiring. I drove on the stock ecu with no problems for a week. I put the eprom ecu back in yesterday and the car has been fine so far so I think the ecu may be okay.

 

[DSMxJB]

Okay so it's been a while since I've posted in this thread. I'm still having the problem with the engine shutting down. Now I think I have ruled out the ecu. It happens on both. It took it over a month but it did it on the stock ecu and the EPROM. I have also realized when it does this the only things I lose power to are the motor, the windows, and the cluster. I'm thinking it's my alarm now because it is wired to the windows for auto roll up. When I lose control of the windows I can't work them from inside but if I arm the car they close.


I unplugged my alarm brain and it looked like this. I don't know if this could be the issue or not?

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[eclipsyco]

That could be your problem too, do the pins look black or burnt? What about the wires? Clean that and test drive it. Same method contact cleaner and toothbrush. I have read about faulty car alarms killing the ignición. Never seen one tho.

 

[wrencher]

To me by description of the problem when it occurs, I would be looking into the wiring.
The cluster going dead then it wont start until the cluster comes back to life ?

I'd be looking @ the ignition switch, turbo timer & wiring , your alarm issue posted above etc.

 

[DSMxJB]

That could be your problem too, do the pins look black or burnt? What about the wires? Clean that and test drive it. Same method contact cleaner and toothbrush. I have read about faulty car alarms killing the ignición. Never seen one tho.

Nothing seems to be black or burnt from what I've seen. Ill clean it and start driving it again. It's just hard to diagnose since it's so random.

 

[DSMxJB]

To me by description of the problem when it occurs, I would be looking into the wiring.
The cluster going dead then it wont start until the cluster comes back to life ?

I'd be looking @ the ignition switch, turbo timer & wiring , your alarm issue posted above etc.

What should I be looking for in the wiring? Sorry I am a total newb when it comes to the wiring. Yes exactly. The only thing that will work on the cluster is if I disarm the alarm it shows the open door symbol until I open a door then nothing again. The turbo timer has been ruled out. It does it with it installed and without it.

 

[wrencher]

Just a quick test;
-WHEN the dash will not power up-, check fuse #8 in the interior fuse box for power with the key in the run position.
Should have battery voltage key on or cranking. It is the power feed for the cluster. (fuse 8 powers more than just the cluster btw)

IG1 output from the ignition switch (black/white wire out of the ign. switch) powers this fuse key on.
If there is a problem here I can see you having a no start.

Cannot overlook that the cluster dies & the car along with it.
How has the turbo timer been verified by removing it's wiring completely?

J

 

[DSMxJB]

Just a quick test;
-WHEN the dash will not power up-, check fuse #8 in the interior fuse box for power with the key in the run position.
Should have battery voltage key on or cranking. It is the power feed for the cluster. (fuse 8 powers more than just the cluster btw)

IG1 output from the ignition switch (black/white wire out of the ign. switch) powers this fuse key on.
If there is a problem here I can see you having a no start.

Cannot overlook that the cluster dies & the car along with it.
How has the turbo timer been verified by removing it's wiring completely?

J

Next time it does it I will check the fuse. Thank you.

I also lose power to my windows and sunroof.

If the windows and sunroof are open though the alarm will still close them when I arm it.

Yes, I've completely removed it and it still had the issue.

 

[wrencher]

Same Fuse #8 suppliies key on power the sunroof ECU & ETACS module for the windows also.

 

[DSMxJB]

Same Fuse #8 suppliies key on power the sunroof ECU & ETACS module for the windows also.

Thank you for your help. The car is in my driveway dead right now. I noticed the open door light is the only one that works on the cluster.

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I also just noticed that everytime I put the key to on or try to crank it when I take the key out the alarm chrips.

Fuse #8 is at 1.0 ohms while the car isn't starting.

It seems to have gotten worse. Now every time I get the car to start when I turn it off I get the no start issue.

 

[wrencher]

Need to see what the voltage is @ that fuse when it wont start. Key on engine off, you can access the top of the fuse's spade while it's still in place in the fuse box. (if you look at the fuse you'll see what I mean)

Connect the black lead of your meter to a good ground on the car. Connect the red lead to the top "spade access" of fuse #8 in the interior box & read the voltage. It should be around 12 volts.
Even a test light might work OK for this test to be a quick test.

 

[DSMxJB]

Need to see what the voltage is @ that fuse when it wont start. Key on engine off, you can access the top of the fuse's spade while it's still in place in the fuse box. (if you look at the fuse you'll see what I mean)

Connect the black lead of your meter to a good ground on the car. Connect the red lead to the top "spade access" of fuse #8 in the interior box & read the voltage. It should be around 12 volts.
Even a test light might work OK for this test to be a quick test.

WOW, I don't know why I measured OHMs Okay, so I started the car for the first time in a few days today and it ran for maybe 30 seconds before it killed itself and hasn't started in a couple hours now. I tried to test for voltage but I'm getting 0-1v max. I wanted to car to start again so I could try to measure it and make sure it's not me doing something wrong but it won't start. I'm thinking of pulling the alarm off. I feel like it's the alarm mainly because I lose the windows and those are wired to the alarm for auto roll up and the alarm chirps when I turn the key from the on to the off position.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

You need to replace your crank sensor.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I lose the windows and those are wired to the alarm for auto roll up and the alarm chirps when I turn the key from the on to the off position.

your saying you lose window control when it won't start?

 

[eclipsyco]

Need to see what the voltage is @ that fuse when it wont start. Key on engine off, you can access the top of the fuse's spade while it's still in place in the fuse box. (if you look at the fuse you'll see what I mean)

Connect the black lead of your meter to a good ground on the car. Connect the red lead to the top "spade access" of fuse #8 in the interior box & read the voltage. It should be around 12 volts.
Even a test light might work OK for this test to be a quick test.

What's fuse #8? Is different on 1g and 2g?
Here is a picture of the fuse box cover note the antitheft is a 10A fuse and there's dedicated fuse for door lock and gauges (cluster) too try replacing these fuses...
I had and issue not so long ago where my turn signals didn't come on but the hazards did the "turn lamp" fuse it was good but for some reason it was no powering the signals I replace it and done working signals again! Later on I notice that the fuse was a little bit thinner than the rest so I just trash it they are very cheap anyway. Good luck

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[DSMxJB]

You need to replace your crank sensor.

your saying you lose window control when it won't start?

The crank sensor? Yes, I lose window control when it won't start. When it's not started I also don't get the cel with the key "on". The alarm will also beep whenever I turn the key off.

What's fuse #8? Is different on 1g and 2g?
Here is a picture of the fuse box cover note the antitheft is a 10A fuse and there's dedicated fuse for door lock and gauges (cluster) too try replacing these fuses...
I had and issue not so long ago where my turn signals didn't come on but the hazards did the "turn lamp" fuse it was good but for some reason it was no powering the signals I replace it and done working signals again! Later on I notice that the fuse was a little bit thinner than the rest so I just trash it they are very cheap anyway. Good luck

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Fuse 8 is "gauges" I believe. The fuses all look fine but I will go to a parts store and get some more. Hmmm thank you I'll have to try it.