engine and turbo priming problems

[RC_slow_dsm]

i'm going to start my rebuilt motor up for the first time, and i need to prime my turbo first. I pulled the oil feed line off (head location) and no oil came out. I cranked the motor over for about a minute and there is still no oil coming out. I then removed the plug for the stock 2g oil feed location and cranked the motor. no oil came out of the hole. This was all being done with spark plug wires out, fuel injectors unclipped, and valve cover off. When i crank the motor over for a few seconds not even a drop of oil comes out of the galleys in the head.

very frustrated and anxious to get this car running does anyone have any idea why there is no oil getting through my motor? worst case scenario i will pull my oil pump out, but i have a brand new topline front cover so i dont see that as being the problem. is it possible that all my oil galleys are plugged? the block and head were both jet washed, block hot-tanked twice. If the oil galleys are plugged then why does no oil come out of the stock 2g oil feed location??

The motor is a 7bolt with squirters removed & BSEK. oil feed location is from the head. oil is Mobil 5000 10w-30 and the average temp around here is 35F.

 

[silver bullit]

Do you have motor oil in the motor or on the dip stick mark?
Timing correct?

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

motor oil is perfectly fine, in fact its overcompensated for the oil filter so it has just enough for the whole motor. the dipstick reads just above full. i retimed the gears about 4-5 times just to make sure it was perfect, believe me its not more than 1 degree off in any direction but there has to be some margin of error.

 

[silver bullit]

New oil pump make sure you put the oil pickup tube on and all the gaskets in the oil pickup and pump are in place? How long are you letting it turn?

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

yes the oil pickup tube is on and the gasket is in also. i've let it turn anywhere from 5-10 seconds all the way to 30 seconds. i've done this at least 10 times and there is still no oil going to the head OR out the oil filter housing.

 

[silver bullit]

Is the oil filter on?

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

yes, i am using a k&n oil filter its on... sorry i'm not that dumb not to put an oil filter on. i know your only trying to help.

could it be that the starter just isn't getting enough power to send oil to the head? What i mean is the starter isn't getting enough voltage to crank the motor over and pump oil through the motor? i dont see how this is possible because oil wouldn't even come out of the oil filter assembly. i really really dont want to pull off the front cover, the timing is perfect as it is and the oil pump is brand new so I dont see why it would be the problem.

 

[silver bullit]

I can only think of 2 things, oil is frozen (dont think)
Or oil gallery is clogged, i always runs a cleaner thing brush through just to be sure, but that is all i can think of other than the oil pump or oil pump being off timing.

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

oil doesn't freeze at these tempuratures. though it is pretty thick when its cold, it should at least be pumped to the oil filter housing area. there is also more than one oil galley, i don't see how all of them could have become clogged because the head and block were jet washed, the block was also hot tanked twice. The oil pump being "off timing?" the only way the oil pump can be timed wrong is if you still have a rear balance shaft in which case you would just experience engine vibration. there is no way to time an oil pump incorrectly. When i performed the BSEK on the oil pump i followed VFAQ word for word and i am 90% posotive that everything was done correctly. I'm just looking for another logical explanation as to why there is no flow of oil throughout any part of my engine.

 

[silver bullit]

Did you eliminate the balance shaft?

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

yes, as stated in my previous post BSEK was installed during the engine rebuild.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

I was never a fan of turning over a whole, fresh motor to prime the oil pump... It sounds like you might have not packed the new oil pump with assembly lube (helps prime on initial startup)... If that were the case, I'd pull the lower timing cover & timing belt. Then grab a cordless drill and a 1/4" hex to a 3/8" drive adapter, put on a 14mm socket and prime the oil pump with the drill. I was surprised to see that it took my motor about 40-50 seconds before I could even hear air bubbles starting to be pushed out of my rollers from the head with the "710" cap off. I basically let the drill spin the oil pump drive gear until I stopped hearing the air bubbles and I got a steady stream of oil jetting from the rollers. It took around 2-3 minutes with an 18.8 volt drill.

After doing that and putting it all back together, I was able to prime it with the starter again and this time, I got oil at the top of the head within 5-7 seconds. -Most reputable performance shops prefer this method for the initial priming of the oil pump on a new setup.

BTW, I HOPE that you blocked off your oil squirters that were removed

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

Yes, the oil squirters were professionally tapped and blocked. The topline pump i bought came with some grease packed into it but i put some moly lube between the gear teeth, i guess this wasn't enougth. Today and tomorrow I will pull the timing and try this method. I would rather retime my entire car than risk having NO oil get to my head, and especially my turbo. Do you think there is any other possible explanation to this just in case i still dont have oil to the head?

 

[luvmygst]

did you but a stubby shaft or cut off the stock shaft in the oil pump. I now a guy that cut the shaft but he forgot to weld the hole in the shaft up. It would never prime all the oil was shooting out the back of the B/S. Just a thought. Good luck

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

...Do you think there is any other possible explanation to this just in case i still dont have oil to the head?

None comes to mind, other then you needing a larger drill to prime with

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

i used the stubby shaft during the BSEK install. I can even distinctly remember turning the gears back and forth from outside the front cover, so i know they are installed correctly. The stubby shaft and all oil pump bolts are loctited and torqued to spec.
Before i was just relying on the starter power to send oil through the whole engine, i did research on the drill before I made this post but I was certain that the starter would crank the oil pump fast enough. I guess i was wrong.. Another idea me and my friends had was to prime just the feed line with oil, but I decided against this because as soon as that oil is used up through the CHRA there would be at least a 15 second gap where no oil would go to the turbo, or even the head at the rate the oil pump was going now. The last thing I want to do is damage this turbo because it is the main reason for the rebuild. Regardless I will try the drill tonight and post my results afterward.

 

[coryd]

Well first off why are you breaking in a new motor with a new turbo? What kind of "stuff" was packed into the oil pump when you got it?? If it was "packed" in there then it prob. some pretty think stuff. About all I could think of is that just cranking the engine isnt gunna get you enough pressure to overcome the lube that they "packed" in there. Doing the drill methond will prob be you best bet without just starting it. I wouldnt crank it over anymore then you already have. The assembly lube that you put on when building the motor isnt intended to lube the motor for continued cranking. Its there just for those few seconds untill oil get there. At this point I would be more worried about getting oil to your motor then your turbo.

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

the turbo is used, but it still needs to be primed regardless. its a 60-1 ball bearing, im not going to risk blowing a $1200 turbo by hoping that oil goes to it. The oil pump came packed with a little bit of thick vaseline type petroleum in the oil outlet to the front cover. I packed it with moly assembly lube as VFAQ addressed in their BSEK install.

 

[9gst0]

you defiantly need to recheck your oil pump and repack with bearing grease. it work for me didn't have to remove the timing cover. get a grease gun take off oil pan& pick up toob hold end of grease-gun on the oil pump and fill it up gears and toob one way to make sure its prime is to move the oil pump gear back and forth slightly you can look and see the gears move in and out then you know its good to go. reassembl and start you'll be fine!

 

[My1GLaser]

I just got done with a fresh rebuild and wanted to prime the motor with oil for the first time. I packed the pump gears & pickup tube (as good as I could) with vaseline. I had some issues with the car not starting, so I ended up cranking for a good 3 minutes total (off and on of course while troubleshooting) and I still didn't have oil in the head. (I filled the oil thru the dipstick tube so I would see any oil the second it got to the head)

There are only 2 ways to prime our motors from what I have researched.
1. A drill on the oil pump sprocket.
2. Build it so it will fire right up and it will oil within seconds.

David Buschur and others say its complete bullsh_t to just crank repeatedly to prime the motor. It only cranks at 200-300 rpm which isnt nearly fast enough.

When I did finally get it to crank, the head had oil in like 5 seconds or less. And I honestly had enough lube for it to run dry at idle for a couple of minutes. There is no issues and it runs and sounds great after 100 miles. After attempting to crank without success, I did pull the plugs and squirt some oil around the edge of the pistons and let it sit overnight. And I pulled the valvecover and put some more lube on the rockers and cam lobes since it squeezes out so quickly.

Just my personal experience FWIW. (Which is quite nerve-racking, I know. Especially on your first bottom end rebuild )

 

[RC_slow_dsm]

thats the response i was looking for thank you. while cranking the motor over my SAFC only registered 200rpm at the most. this makes sense seeing how our motors have low pressure at idle. it does make me nervous when something doesnt happen when it should. thanks ill post results tonight

 

[Nipper]

Every damn time, it never fails. I search and search and finally find a good thread with great discussion concerning my current dilemma. Then the promise of an update and then nothing....crickets....no closure. And I'm left to wonder did it work out or did they blow their turbo/engine? I kind of need to know.

 

[GST with PSI]

I kind of need to know.

Need to know what?