Electric oil pump primer & post engine cool down, oppinions wanted

[alexg1323]

I am starting a research project (and this is the begining for my proposal) to complete my automotive minor and decided to base it on some work I do with my car. Ive always been real interested in the benifits of an electric oil pump and while complete dependency on our engines would be difficult its a very real possibility and could work very well to be used as an assist for pre engine start up and post turbo/engine cool down.

The wiring schemadics I have drawn are set up to enable the greddy turbo timer to soley start the oil pump when the turbo timer is turned on (IE key in the on position and unit turned on) without the engine running, and to begin a timed run of the oil pump after ignition and engine shut down. It cannot operate while the engine is running, wired this way for fear of engine oil pressure damaging the pump and redundancy. There is also a manual momentary switch set in this system to prime the oil pump manually if the turbo timer is left off and engine shut off. You will also notice a fuel primer momentary switch, i figured i would put this in while im at it because the bosch 044 pump and fuel set up i use has no check valve so it would be useful to use this to build up pressure before cranking the engine over for a faster start up.

I would like to hear other peoples input and comments please if you got any

alex

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Quite some time back I saw a vendor (can't remember who) made a kit just for that purpose. Although I seem to remember that you still used the factory pump also. Their unit was basically to get the oil pressure up to around 50PSI (IIRC) before startup and then you could actually shut off the car and their unit had a timer to allow the electric pump to "run-on" for a length of time. I seem to remember theirs cut off once the engine turned over.

Basically what you propose.

The biggest "wear" factor is during engine start up, so if you had pressure before you started, you would conceivable eliminate that issue. And with the pump only running after shut down at the very least you wouldn't have people come up to you as you walked of saying "Hey man, you do know your car is still running?".

A lot of race cars, especially in the more advanced series, use a system that is similar. The oil pump fires up then the ignition is flipped.

If you were the super anal type, it would be a good thing.

 

[Defiant]

Pointlessly extravagant, expensive, complicated, and subject to catastrophic failure.
Better would be a simple accumulator with solenoid control which is pumped up by oil pressure bleed-off, then allowed to purge into the system shortly before startup.
A water-cooled spool cools by thermosiphon when shut off; the amount of oil compared to that of water in a spool is trivial.

 

[perley03]

And just like electric water pumps, which by the way are fairly expensive, they are prone to failure within a few years. I know you are doing a research project in your automotive field, but why risk your $10,000 motor when that pump can fail without notice?
What you really should be thinking of is a hybrid mechanical/electrical pump, so that when you first start it, the electric would build pressure, and once the engine is started, the mechanical takes over. Just a thought.

 

[alexg1323]

i think you guys are completly overlooking what this system is designed for. Sure it will prime the engine to prevent dry start ups, why not. It would also give a much stronger oil pressure then an accumulator. The main purpose of this set up is the post shut down run time that can cool the engine and turbo and do it very well for minutes after shut down. I dont see how this pump failing would be catastrophic? There is no depedency from the engine on the electric oil pump, and a check valve in the system. worst case scenareo the pump fails and the car doesnt get a cool down untill I notice it.

 

[turbo addict]

http://www.pre-luber.com/index.htm
I think that this is what you guys are talking about.

 

[perley03]

i think you guys are completly overlooking what this system is designed for. Sure it will prime the engine to prevent dry start ups, why not. It would also give a much stronger oil pressure then an accumulator. The main purpose of this set up is the post shut down run time that can cool the engine and turbo and do it very well for minutes after shut down. I dont see how this pump failing would be catastrophic? There is no depedency from the engine on the electric oil pump, and a check valve in the system. worst case scenareo the pump fails and the car doesnt get a cool down untill I notice it.

Ahh, gotcha I thought you were meaning to take the mechanical pump out entirely, and utilizing the electric one so it will prime the system before start-up and allow the system to cool after shutdown. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
From the point of view that you just told us, it sounds like it would be a very efficient design that will allow motors to last longer (under certain circumstances, of course) due to the lack of lubrication at start-up and hot oil-coking temps at shutdown. Very neat, but thoughtful design. I like it

 

[alexg1323]

there really isnt a wide variety of these pumps out there for sale. i found this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&rd=1&item=8072615257&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT what do you guys think? You think it will have the capacity im looking for to build a decent amount of oil pressure in the engine?

 

[MIdsm]

Check out Tilton / Mocal oil transfer/cooler pumps. They flow 1-2 gpm at up to 50ish psi.

www.batinc.net has Mocal products. Pegasus and many others carry Tilton branded pump.

 

[Defiant]

i think you guys are completly overlooking what this system is designed for. Sure it will prime the engine to prevent dry start ups, why not. It would also give a much stronger oil pressure then an accumulator.

Oil pressure isn't so much a concern with plain bearings- they run much higher internal pressure due to hydrodynamics than is supplied by the pump. The pump's job is only to supply fresh, cool oil to the bearings. Bearing death due to pump inadequacy is from the oil caught in the bearing overheating and failing.

The main purpose of this set up is the post shut down run time that can cool the engine and turbo and do it very well for minutes after shut down.

For a stopped plain bearing, you won't be getting much cooling- you'll have oil supplied through the oiling hole, unless the hole is stopped just at the bottom of the bearing and blocked-off by the bearing and gravity. If it's not blocked, you'll be cooling an area of about ¼" around the supply hole- it won't circulate through the bearing with the rotating surface stopped. You derive much more cooling from conduction through the iron and steel, and in the case of the spool, through coolant thermosiphon.
Your idea is good, your intent is golden, but your information base regarding the behavior of plain bearings is not quite broad enough.