Electric Water pump and Power Stearing pump

[bddanford]

Im wondering if anyone have switched to a electric waterpump or electric power stearing pump. I have a 93 Talon TSi FWD and im trying to find some information on using an electric water pump or electric power stearing pump. Ive seen s couple of thread here on electric water pumps, but no one stated what pump they used. I check out Jabsco web site, and they have them, but I dont know what flow rates to use or PSI. Has anyone done any research with better results than I have?

I would like to just run an alternator and no other accessories. Ive already removed my AC and my balance shafts, but I think I would be benificial to remove the water pump and power stearing pump as well. I dont this I can find a manual rack for this car, so Im looking for a electric pump.

Any help would be great!

Thanks!

 

[MIdsm]

I would try to use an electric power steering pump from 91-93 MR2.

Craig Davis makes a couple of electric water pumps and also an electronic controller. I beleive that SPA sells them here in US. http://www.spatechnique.com/

Good luck,

Stevan

 

[sweet97]

Usually race cars only. Find HP the old-fashioned way...earn it!Your car must be modded to the max for you to want to ty this. Stick with taditional improvemets. I believe you will find much more HP at much less $$$$$. Mark

 

[silverbulletAWD]

Summit sells pumps and the fittings you'll need to do the job but I can tell you you'll spend about $350 to gain a small increase and one more potential failure. I actually plan to do this this winter but my car is about up to that "full-drag" point now.

As for the steering rack. Yes, you can get a manual rack for 1g's. The standard model Eclipse 1.8l DL came w/o PS. I picked up a rack for like $40 off www.car-parts.com this past winter. Works good to. Just do a search on that site. It should give you the option of manual or power.

Andy

 

[Defiant]

It's pretty much a wash. The power needed to drive the power steering, water pump, even air conditioning is just transferred from the accessories to the alternator.

Free lunch ain't free.

 

[burldude]

It's pretty much a wash. The power needed to drive the power steering, water pump, even air conditioning is just transferred from the accessories to the alternator.

Free lunch ain't free.

Actually with all things being equal one hp generates a whole lot of amps . There is a formula out there and I have had it explained to me but my cluttered mind has forgotten . I am quite certain however that one hp generates in excess of 50 amps of power . Now this is in a 100 % efficient system . Alternators being at best say 70% efficient . With a high out put alernator replacing the stock one you would see hp gain replacing any parasitic loss from the drive pulleys . I shyed away from the idea of a electric water pump though . The head pressure is not great enough . Sure they may flow 55 gpm but put a load on them and watch the flow drop and the psi of water pressure in the head go way down to unacceptable levels :thumbdown There are ways around this such as coating the combustion chamber, piston , intake, and exhaust tracks and keep as much of the heat as possible traveling out of the head(and out the exhaust) . Then with an electric pump you will see gains along with improved thermal dynamics within the engine . In small block applications like 350 running 400hp electric water pumps and ceramic coatings have made upwards of 50 hp . Every little bit adds up like Titanium Parts

 

[bastarddsm]

because the mechanical to electric to mechanical energy conversion is about 50% efficient you would use 2 times as much power running it electric as frunning it off the crank shaft

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

BurlDSM: Driving a 70% effcient alternator to power a pump definitely take more power, but its all measured in one's at 2's.

However, the reason you gain power from it is becuase the water pump is spinning fast enough at 2000 rpm, and anything after that is wastng energy, so with an electric pump, it drains the same at 9k as it does at 3k, where as mechanicals are forced to go up, good or not.

 

[thegreatms]

I want to clarify this point.

"I am quite certain however that one hp generates in excess of 50 amps of power "

Amps are current, not power

1 hp = 746 watts

in a 12 volt system (well really they runs at like 13.5) that will output 746/13.5=55 amps. whicj is close to the stated 50 amps.
But that's beside the point, it doesn’t matter how many amps you get. You have to look at efficency.


In general a two stage system (alternator then elec. motor) will be less efficent than a one stage(simple impeller).

But in this specific case Itsstockofficer is right. Above a certain rpm the water cavitates and the pumping becomes very inefficient. Also, air bubbles are introduced by the cavitation and this worsens your heat transfer. An electric water pump can stay at the optimum efficiency for best heat transfer as long as you need it. Then it can slow down/shut off when the coolant temp goes down.

I'm not sure about the flow rate as load goes up. But I'm sure you could get this info from the pump manufacturers. It can’t be that big of a problem. Hell, V8 guys have been doing this for years.

 

[burldude]

I want to clarify this point.

"I am quite certain however that one hp generates in excess of 50 amps of power "

Amps are current, not power

1 hp = 746 watts

in a 12 volt system (well really they runs at like 13.5) that will output 746/13.5=55 amps. whicj is close to the stated 50 amps.
But that's beside the point, it doesn't matter how many amps you get. You have to look at efficency.


In general a two stage system (alternator then elec. motor) will be less efficent than a one stage(simple impeller).

But in this specific case Itsstockofficer is right. Above a certain rpm the water cavitates and the pumping becomes very inefficient. Also, air bubbles are introduced by the cavitation and this worsens your heat transfer. An electric water pump can stay at the optimum efficiency for best heat transfer as long as you need it. Then it can slow down/shut off when the coolant temp goes down.

I'm not sure about the flow rate as load goes up. But I'm sure you could get this info from the pump manufacturers. It can't be that big of a problem. Hell, V8 guys have been doing this for years.

Thank you, I could'nt remember the formula . :thumbdown
I deffinetly like the idea of going all out with every possible means of increasing efficiency. V8 guys ( Iam still one ,but like my 2.0 better ) are also gaining more hp becuase of the larger impellar and rotating weight .

In general a two stage system (alternator then elec. motor) will be less efficent than a one stage(simple impeller).

The small water pump on a dsm is much smaller but there will still be a gain at any rpm becuase of friction to belt which could be alleviated .

I haven't though about cavitation much becuase of the whole system being under pressure but I am sure that it could be studdied in greater depth

 

[BLACKCARBON]

is there any more info on the elec. water pump conversion?

 

[DashLaflash]

^x2 I would like to see some people post that have done this before. You don't see it happening too much on DSMs. The Jay's Racing water pump fitting is nice for deleting the water pipe but I can't see it happening on a 2g with the power steering and alternator in the way.

 

[99gst_racer]

If you have access to the Link forum, here's some good reading:
ECMTuning User Support Forums

 

[Hal]

^x2 I would like to see some people post that have done this before. You don't see it happening too much on DSMs. The Jay's Racing water pump fitting is nice for deleting the water pipe but I can't see it happening on a 2g with the power steering and alternator in the way.

Move alt. to the rear and delete the power steering.

Hal

 

[BLACKCARBON]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/407235-dynoed-74mm-new-best-835awhp-46psi.html

 

[casuprock]

It's pretty much a wash. The power needed to drive the power steering, water pump, even air conditioning is just transferred from the accessories to the alternator.

Free lunch ain't free.

That's the truth... plus you'll get the inefficiency of converting mechanical power to electrical power (70% at best) and then back into mechanical power through a pump motor (50% at best). All said you're looking at .7*.5= 35% efficiency from an electric pump.

The benefit of an electric water pump is that it can be selectively engaged before and immediately after a run so it's not draining power from the engine during your pull.