ECU Mods/PnP Programmers/Loggers

[pazsion]

I guess a mod didn't share my sense of humor and deleted my post Dude I admire your desire to break the mold but your trying to squeeze a dollar out of 15cents.

=D no, actually i'm trying to squeeze a dollar out of $3.50/ga =D

I'm sorry your post got deleted or whatever. A sense of humor i have =P

And dont really care if i get flamed or whatever.. there are naysayers for everything.. Imagein what einstein had to go through.. but i'm no einstein...Some think white people are the cream of the crop. some say we never landed on the moon. Others need to see it for themselves or don't believe it. There are all kinds.

Or stanly meyer. or anyone with a good idea. Why the hell did we go nuclear if we had hydrogen. And zero-point energy/engines Is a good damn question... Because they were theories no one believed in or Knew worked. Education is key.

 

[Car_guy_09]

K first off Lean is less fuel, Rich is more fuel. And no CR can not be changed by timing.

MS is nowhere near $800


Put your fog light caps back in. Your not helping aerodynamics your hurting them.

 

[pazsion]

fog light covers.. ok put your hand out the window at 60 mph.. flat out it catches more air.. cupped it catchs alot more drag.. pulls your hand back even. now make it cut into the wind...MUCh less resistance...

with the fog light covers in.. it's just like pushing a wall through the air.. anything without a gradual curve. usually creates more drag.. also the more surface area = more drag..

with them removed.... the air instead goes thru .. where it is then pushed over the engine & wheels and out the sides and under the car.. mostly out the sides. There is significantly less push on the front end. You can further modify the side panels/doors for even less drag

 

[Locke]

4. An installed and functional EGR system can help improve economy while cruising as well. Wrap the EGR pipe if your worried about it heating your intake.

It will be wrapped..does it absolutley need exhaust to be cooler...basically chokeing the motor, to reduce nox.. or can i just have this run with a filter..possible valve/TB...I've noticed it doesn't run through the IAC

The EGR system saves a little fuel while cruising by using exhausted gas to displace oxygen, then reducing the amount of fuel to keep FT's sensible. Think of it as magically reducing CID, slightly.

5. Reduce parasitic losses. Installing a UPD, and removing PS and AC will take a load off the motor.

I assume UPD...is underdrive pulley? Are they configured so the rpms are more or less..at the alternater.. I need to that for various things. And is probably my biggest parasitic loss right now, over the cat and transmission

I meant UDP, it was a typo. Yes, under-drive pulley. The accessories will rotate more slowly with a UDP. An alternator in good condition will operate fine with an UDP.

6. Reduce pumping losses. A free-flowing muffler and cat will get exhaust out easier. A CAI/SRI with a large low-restriction filter will let the air in easier. In an effort to save fuel, you will be generally keeping the revs low, so good exhaust scavenging will be in your benefit here. Either stock sized, or possibly slightly larger will be best. I'd probably stick with stock cams, and if you seldom find yourself passing or accelerating rapidly, possibly increasing LSA with a set of adjustable cam gears to move the power-band down.


LSA? whats that? WTF =D limited slip axle? z pls lemme kno
Yes the exhaust i have planned, if designed and built right. should allow a expansion area right off the head, into 4 into 1. With a ground kit in back, that would have a pretty good sized area for the scavenging effect of passing wind. I wanna incorporate some means of ram air induction.. that runs inline with exhaust.. I think there is little room and significant drag if i mount them on the front.. possibly fog lights area.. routing of that pipeing and keeping increased velocity with speed.. would be the point of that.. and possibly difficult. whats SRI?

LSA = Lobe Separation Angle. Less LSA = more overlap, and more LSA = less overlap. Overlap employs the existing exhausts momentum to help pull the air charge in. More overlap will make more power in the upper RPMs, less will make more down low.

Too much overlap and the effect won't happen at low RPM. Instead it becomes counter productive, pulling exhaust back into the cylinders during the intake stroke, and less incoming charge from the intake.

Too little overlap sacrifices this effect at higher RPM, and can turn into a pumping loss. (choke)

The subject of LSA and overlap is far more complicated than this, but that is the gist of it.


Where you place steps in an exhaust system will depend on the VE and CID of the engine, as well as the conditions/RPM's you intend on reaping it's benefit and whether or not you will wrap or ceramic coat the header. The math is complicated, and usually ends up trial-and-error by large companies with well funded R&D departments. A thorough understanding of the Ideal Gas and Combined Gas laws, as well as a basic understanding of momentum, is essential for planning proper stepping.


SRI = Short Ram Intake.

Building a ram-air type intake may prove beneficial to fuel economy as it reduces pumping losses. Bullett noted slight time gains with the use of his ram-air intake, this should equate to fuel savings while cruising at speed.

7. A programmable engine computer (such as MS) with the aide of a WBO2 will allow you to run the engine very lean during cruising. This will skyrocket your NOx emissions though, so if you have emissions testing, beware. An SAFC may be used, but you'll find yourself fighting the ECU, as it adjusts FT's.

eh, lean is more fuel...right.. not where i'm trying to go here.. unless I florr it of course..
I think the ecu finding trims adds to the bog and hesitation as welll.. wasting fuel yet again. A secondary air fuel controller...where would i get one? This is separate from an ecu right? I do have the MS ecu in mind. But i'm a ways off from gettin ahold of $800...

Lean is less fuel. You can pick up an MS unit for far less than $800.

8. Increasing CR will increase power throughout the rev range, without the need for added fuel. You will find yourself giving less throttle to do what you want.

CR? Compression ratio...right.. And yes so far i am using less pedal..Am i wrong here but can't timing increase compression as well? Advance.. right?...Can this be changed by re-positioning the cam sensor? or will the ecu adjust to compensate? Small changes I guess..I always see peoples timing gears set at 0 for these cars. And the cam sensor is only on the exhaust side? And I'd want that to be open longer anyway.. I'm thinking moving the cam sensor would only delay or advance the fuel injection.. ??? am i wrong?

Ignition timing will effect peak cylinder pressure, but not static compression.

The 420a's ECU get's its timing information from the crank sensor. The cam sensor's primary purpose on the 420a is to quickly determine orientation, mostly for faster start-up.

Lifters and rockers: I asked about how these can be improved.. I swapped the rockers from the 4g63 in there.. when i did a head rebuild. They seemed a bit shorter, but ride in the same area. And have good tolerances. They have a hole over the lifters.. I'm wondering if this would decrease the lift over the oem rockers. Because the oil passes thru it more.. I really thinking these lifters are what holding it back.. from 200hp+ You want them thrown open as wide as u can, but not hitting the piston or remaining open longer then they are sopposed to.. but stronger springs would help this.

You're using 4g63 rockers? Hmmm. Seems suspicious, but without a set in front of me, I can't be certain. I'd have never reckoned. I'm (off the top of my head) unsure of the ratio. The greater the ratio, the more valve lift you get. This is good for high RPM driving, but will have a negative effect on cylinder filling at lower RPMs.

I read that agressive cams/stronger springs could make the water pump houseing fail.. too much stress? Probably on the list of things to machine and improve...

[/COLOR]

I've never heard of that being an issue with these engines, as far as I can recall.



Nearly everything is a trade-off or compromise when engine building.

 

[chris712vt]

wow.... ridiculous. Reading at the beginning was bad enough, I didn't bother with the rest.

I just have to laugh at the story of you spinning through 3rd or 4th or whatever. Especially after watching your video. I dyno'd like 115whp NA, and I could only chirp the tires going into second with a hard shift. I can spin all the way through 1st, 2nd, and into 3rd now on 245s, but that's with a big turbo and 16psi of boost and if I'm purposely staying in it to light up the tires, otherwise I normally grab and pull hard once I get into 3rd. You're crazy if you claimed to do that or think you can NA with just some minor mods. And if you want to be able to do that you will be sucking down fuel getting low 20mpg I'd bet.

Forget about 60mpg with this car. I don't even think my 354 lb motorcycle gets 60mpg.

Good for you for having all these ideas, but you're just dreaming at this point from some of the things I read. Either do more realistic things with realistic goals, or get a smart car or something. Sorry to be so blunt but you need a reality check.

 

[pazsion]

False Again my friend...I currently built and am running a full electrolysis system on my 93 lexus, AKA hydrogen and water to give better gas mileage... I have it connected and has been running for the past 3 months with at the most 5 extra miles TO THE TANK. It varies is every car, but honestly, HOH will not give better gas mileage alone.

maybe you need to redesign your hho cell.. i used to get 80 miles per slash on the gauge..i'm guessing that is 3-5 gallons of gas per marking..how big is the tank on this thing? 15 gallons?

now it's 120 with my current design..and 93 octane seems to help keep it up there..performance and milage gains are still there regardless of bad fuel or grade..my brother started a car that sat for years..the fuel smelled like water..and would only run with the hydrgen hooked up.....but i'm working out something that should be able to replace gas entirely.. which would be a "full" hho system.. not a partial gas saver.. but i am also improveing current designs for this as well..also hydrogen is water basically.. electrolysis releases the hydrogen.. and that what you want to be burning.. not water.. tho i've seen people run water through separate injectors...into the fuel rail and on the headers to help keep combustion temps down..

weather,tire pressure and many other things effect this.. even where you hook it up at..most people put it on the air intake.. mine is on the throttle body. And i looped the vaccum hose that came off that back into the manifold.. useing the same tubeing.. not sure what its for..and could be hurting performance..

so, in theory i went from 400 miles to 600 miles to the tank.. if it is a 10 gallon tank.. thats 60 mpg.. 15 gallon tank..would be 40 mpg.. and thats with a sporadically leaking injector so actual gains could be more..

i think i'm loseing fuel to evaporation when its hot tho.. i'm trying to figure out how to prevent that.. i havent found any leaks.. besides my #4 injector

 

[knochgoon24]

When my sister had her GS, she routinely got about 45mpg. All it had was an AEM "cold" air intake and a horribly buzzy cat-back. Ran the cheapest 87 octane she could find and no fancy hho cell.
You want to know her trick??? She drove slower than my grandma. She drove slower than my great-grandma. The speed limit was the limit for her, and she was in no hurry to accelerate.


You shouldn't loose fuel to evaporation. Your gas cap should hold the pressure. It's one of those things that they check in emission states/counties.

 

[pazsion]

s, yea so far i find that running anything lower then 93, is a waste of money. Simply because you push the pedal more to get what you want. even driving using less pedal, still uses more gas, cause you take more time getting up to speed. The bog and loss of horsepower can even be very dangerous in certain situations.

But without fuel of some sort, your not going far at all. I'm hoping giving it other fuels to burn will help it go more with less gasoline. In the end replacing gasoline entirely.

Obtaining some means of increasing spark and modifying fuel maps will also help in this venture. Particularly when i get something going that should replace gasoline. I'll still need something to help the ecu effectively use the fuel i'm giving it.

 

[CODE4]

s, yea so far i find that running anything lower then 93, is a waste of money. Simply because you push the pedal more to get what you want. even driving using less pedal, still uses more gas, cause you take more time getting up to speed. The bog and loss of horsepower can even be very dangerous in certain situations.

But without fuel of some sort, your not going far at all. I'm hoping giving it other fuels to burn will help it go more with less gasoline. In the end replacing gasoline entirely.

Obtaining some means of increasing spark and modifying fuel maps will also help in this venture. Particularly when i get something going that should replace gasoline. I'll still need something to help the ecu effectively use the fuel i'm giving it.

This is so full of misinformation, I am not even going into detail.

And thanks for bringing an old ass thread back.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I had much fun with this. The OP is alive and around..
I'm sure to be having much fun with that, too.

'Cause routing my pvc into a line that goes under my front bumper, to an oil cooler and back (insert a filter in there somehwere) gives me infinityMPG. Never mind if I filled up my n/t with 93!
OP, 93 will lower your mpg, running anything higher than 87 in your car is a waste of money. I'm not going to go around correcting all this crap - others have tried and you're still not getting it. It might be time for an intervention.


Here's one for thought, if the advantage of an intercooler is a cooler air charge and an intercooler cools hot air down to near ambient temperature, how is that any colder than the ambient air you'd normally be sucking through a CAI? Ahhh! gotchya!

 

[4g63tc]

I had much fun with this. The OP is alive and around..
I'm sure to be having much fun with that, too.

'Cause routing my pvc into a line that goes under my front bumper, to an oil cooler and back (insert a filter in there somehwere) gives me infinityMPG. Never mind if I filled up my n/t with 93!
OP, 93 will lower your mpg, running anything higher than 87 in your car is a waste of money. I'm not going to go around correcting all this crap - others have tried and you're still not getting it. It might be time for an intervention.


Here's one for thought, if the advantage of an intercooler is a cooler air charge and an intercooler cools hot air down to near ambient temperature, how is that any colder than the ambient air you'd normally be sucking through a CAI? Ahhh! gotchya!

Because the Ambient air is flowing from a supernova, after the flux capacitor gets done treating it to a proper mixture for the dilithium matrix, so he can go back in time, to kill the dinosaurs.

WTF

 

[Cobo's Customs]

This post makes my head hurt, I have a 420a with high compression (10.5:1) and a turbo and a stock ecu with stage 3 cams plus much more and its current setup makes over 400hp and still gets 40mpg highway. im sure if I did not have the turbo on there killing my exhaust flow at low amount of throttle it would probably be closer to 43mpg. my point being this..... port velocity, compression ratio, and fuel atomization are the 3 things that have to be high to acheive great gas milage! Cam duration increase helps alot too. i built a 2 door saturn once for stock performance and insane mpg and wound up at 51 mpg highway (42 with the a/c on and family in car).

 

[PieEyedPiper]

If it matters, I think there was a discussion recently that determined running premium in an n/a isn't too much of a detriment to mileage after all. The detriment of 4.59/gal is, though, all too real.

I really want to see better shots of this throttle body/oil cooler thing. It's just fascinating to me.

 

[jrohner]

I almost forgot about the dumbest thread ever, thank you for reviving it; good to read back through some of these once in a while.