DSM Green Xl vs. FP71HTA

[DailyDrvn6bolt]

I found a big old crack on my housing so its time for a new turbo. I wanted to see if any of you have had experience with any of these two turbos, DSM Green Xl and FP71HTA. They're on sale on Forcedperformance.net so i would like to buy one of these since there a bolt on for my 1g. I would love some feedback on these turbos, please and thank you.

 

[Seamus]

DSM'ers are cheap

I agree though. Seems every thread that has the word turbo people recommend a holset.

haha yea i got duped. I didn't do any real research. i didn't even know the hx35's exact measurments. i really just took what i read on these forums as fact(yea i know that makes me more idiotic than most of the members) a local guy who was in a pinch basically gave me his 7 blade and BEP housing and i switched out my old 20g setup for it. The holset makes great power, but its not a fun turbo like the smaller stuff im used to running.

I know it doesn't seem to make sense but that is what I get in Link and nothing changed but the turbo. I have my actual and est. A/F to exactly lined up perfectly. With my billet 20g w/td06sl2 turbine the most I ever saw was 45lbs @24psi and I was at like 76% idc which seems about right. With The only thing that changed from that was the turbo. I keep looking over everthing in Link and nothing seems out of place.
I am runnning it on a 2.4L with a ported head, evo III intake, etc. so I don't know...

its just impossible though. I'm not trying to call you out or be an internet jockey. i'm sure you are seeing it in link. but something is off. Can you post a log? i think FP says that wheel can move 51lbs/min. I'm don't know if that is possible with the td05 or not. I would think having yours configured with the td06 definatly would make that possible. But how is it going ro max the compressors published number at 19psi? Are people going to be moving 10+ lbs/min over its reported max output? It just doesn't make sense to me. unless FP it underrating the compressor. Has anyone seen an actual compressor map for it instead of just claimed figures? It seems like this little wheel can move some big airflow.

Im really interested in this hta71, and i think i want to go that route instead of another 20g.

 

[AK Maniak]

haha yea i got duped. I didn't do any real research. i didn't even know the hx35's exact measurments. i really just took what i read on these forums as fact(yea i know that makes me more idiotic than most of the members) a local guy who was in a pinch basically gave me his 7 blade and BEP housing and i switched out my old 20g setup for it. The holset makes great power, but its not a fun turbo like the smaller stuff im used to running.

Holsets are great turbos and some people make good power with them, but there are also people who bolt on an HX35 and barely make 350whp. Although that is more so a supporting mod issue than the turbo it self, it just goes to show that a Holset isn't some magical snail.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people that suggest a certain turbo for street use and whether it's a Holset are not they might have completely different definition of a good street turbo than you. Some members on here using a journal bearing PTE6262 claim it is the best street turbo they have ever had where as others say a 16g is the perfect street turbo.

If you liked your 20g then you'll probably love the 71HTA it will have very similar spool and flow as much as 51lbs/min compared to 45lbs/min from the 20g. The FP Green flows 54lbs/min and the Green XL flows 59lbs/min so those might be a bit bigger than you are looking for.

I made a Thread asking pretty much the same thing as you. Simply looking for suggestions as to which turbo to run between the 71HTA vs the 76HTA. Michael @ FP replied with this:

71HTA is replacing the 68HTA so if you were looking at the 68 before then the 71 is the one you want. Although on crap gas like 91Octane alone it might be a good idea to step up to the bigger 76HTA while you'll give up some spool it'll be more capable of providing power on your limited gas.

It's really all up to what your goals are if you want 300WHP then go with the 71HTA if at the end of the day with meth injection you want closer to 400WHP then go with the 76HTA.

-Michael

 

[Seamus]

Yea it really is about what you like. I had a really strong 20g car, and the holset still made almost 60hp and i havent even finished the tiiming on it. But the holset is just not a fun turbo like the 20g.

I definatly think i am going to try a hta71 and do some experimenting with exhaust wheels.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

It's not fun til your past 28 psi

 

[gprix1]

Did a new pull tonight with the 71HTA with the correct settings in the MAP and BoostEst properties and now the numbers should be correct.
Supporting mods are 2.4L, E3 intake, VRSF fmic, 60mm TB, and 264 cams.
I'm seeing 48.3lbs of flow @ 20.1psi.

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[DailyDrvn6bolt]

Did a new pull tonight with the 71HTA with the correct settings in the MAP and BoostEst properties and now the numbers should be correct.
Supporting mods are 2.4L, E3 intake, VRSF fmic, 60mm TB, and 264 cams.
I'm seeing 48.3lbs of flow @ 20.1psi.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Thanks for the input. Im leaning more towards this turbo. How long have you been running your car with this turbo?

 

[gprix1]

Thanks for the input. Im leaning more towards this turbo. How long have you been running your car with this turbo?

Been running mine a little over a week now. You're in Vegas? I go there every couple of months. I live out toward Laughlin.

 

[DailyDrvn6bolt]

Been running mine a little over a week now. You're in Vegas? I go there every couple of months. I live out toward Laughlin.

How are you liking this turbo? And oh thats nice, yeah I live in vegas i don't see many dsm's over here

 

[Seamus]

Been running mine a little over a week now. You're in Vegas? I go there every couple of months. I live out toward Laughlin.

man, those numbers are still amazing. You should try a td05h and see if you can get those low boost flow numbers with the td05h torque curve. yd05h shouldn't be a real restriction yet at 48lbs, so it should make for an awesome turbo. i think i am set on the hta71. Who want s brand new holset setup?

 

[gprix1]

How are you liking this turbo? And oh thats nice, yeah I live in vegas i don't see many dsm's over here

I've been very happy with it. I really dislike turbo lag for a street car so I had previously limited my turbo size to a 20g but then I started having a bit of surge with my 20g even with the td06sl2 turbine. So when the 71HTA was priced at $999 I had to give it a try.
It spools very similiar to the 20g but without the surge issues and even more airflow on top . For me, it is exactly what I was looking for in a street turbo.

 

[Lou98GSX]

your timing seems low for only 20 psi of boost . you should be getting full timing like 16

 

[94awdcoupe]

gprix1, I still think that flow rate of 48lbs at 20psi is off. My hta green 2.3 setup flows 48lbs at 22lbs (8.7 compression) 24lbs with 8.3 compression. Reason I think your off is because my injector duty is around 75% but with 1200cc inj

 

[gprix1]

your timing seems low for only 20 psi of boost . you should be getting full timing like 16

Timing is low because I have it very conservative right now (91 pump gas). Now that I've got my A/F dialed in I'll be working on timing now.

gprix1, I still think that flow rate of 48lbs at 20psi is off. My hta green 2.3 setup flows 48lbs at 22lbs (8.7 compression) 24lbs with 8.3 compression. Reason I think your off is because my injector duty is around 75% but with 1200cc inj

Well, that's what I'm logging... I can say that I have carefully matched my supporting mod's for maximizing efficiency around 7k rpm's. Also, .1L more displacement doesn't seem like much but that is 5% more air moving at the same rpm's compared to your 2.3L.. If we took 45.8lbs (a reasonable number if your 2.3L was running a 71hta @ 20psi) and multiplied it by 1.05, you would get 48.09.
So we're logging the same airflow readings and we're within 2psi of each other.. Well, the 71hta is into it's efficiency sweet spot whereas once boost goes up more, especially in the 30psi range, I'm sure the Green would leave the 71hta in the dust by a large margin.
I mean, what is there really that can be so "off" airflow-wise once correctly setting up injector size, displacement in the SD table to 2.4L, calibrate the SD Table so that wideband readings from pulls perfectly match AFRatioEst, and set display properties for MAP and BoostEST for the correct displacement and altitude? All my sensors (Omni 4 bar, GM AIT, Innovate MTX WB) are setup correctly, wideband is calibrated regularly so I feel pretty comfortable with the airflow numbers I'm seeing.
As for the discrepencies in between our IDC's, not sure what's going on there. I think what is needed now is more 71HTA results from other members. I'm particularly interested in those running their's on a 2.4L.

 

[94awdcoupe]

there is only 60cc difference from 2.3 to 2.4. we are both at 48 lbs airflow. really size of engine is irrelevant. X airflow needs Y amount of fuel. duty cycle is never off since its just time/rpm based and no user input. the big difference is the amount of fuel you are using. 78% duty with 880cc vs 76% with 1200cc. my car hits 460whp at 48lbs airflow (dynojet) so my logged airflow cant be too far off.

 

[gprix1]

there is only 60cc difference from 2.3 to 2.4. we are both at 48 lbs airflow. really size of engine is irrelevant. X airflow needs Y amount of fuel. duty cycle is never off since its just time/rpm based and no user input. the big difference is the amount of fuel you are using. 78% duty with 880cc vs 76% with 1200cc. my car hits 460whp at 48lbs airflow (dynojet) so my logged airflow cant be too far off.

Not sure why we are seeing this much difference then. Guess it's time to make a trip to Vegas and put mine on a dyno. Only other thing I can think of is base fuel pressure but I can't believe there would be that much of a difference.