Driving, huge loss of power, rattling noise

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I have a 99 Eclipse GST Spyder, auto trans.

I started up the car in the morning and was driving about 35 mph about a mile from the house. I was accelerating when suddenly there's a huge loss of power. The car will accelerate but only very slowly. I limped it back home. I now hear a rattling sound coming from the engine bay. It sounds like someone took several soda can tabs, stuck them inside the can, and is shaking the can around. The car seems to rev fine and is as smooth as ever. It doesn't seem to stumble or vibrate. The rattling sound gets louder and faster as the engine revs up.

As I'm pulling into the driveway I notice an oil spot on the ground over where the engine sat. Opening the hood I see fresh oil in the bay and it looks like it's coming out of the valve cover gasket. The low oil light isn't on and neither is the check engine light.

The car starts fine, revs fine, is stable, but there's just no power, an oil leak, and a rattling sound.

It's going to be rainy all week so I'll look at it on the weekend. What should I look at first?

 

[Breezio69]

What side of the car is the leak on? Can you Jack it up and look at things from the bottom? I know the top can get a little cluttered when looking down and around piping at things...

How does it look around the turbo? It could have let go on ya?

Sorry for the million questions but it can be a number of things

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Questions are fine. Anything to help the better.

The oil looks like it's coming out of the front of the valve cover gasket, on to the heatshield thing over the header, and dripping down the driver side of it to the ground.

The turbo didn't look odd from the outside. I'll look closer next time. For all I know the oil leak and rattling aren't related. I can give pictures and a video clip when the rain lets up. I also want to take the hose off of the turbo and see what the vanes look like or if theres huge play or something.

 

[twicks69]

I wouldn't be shocked if you snapped the shaft on your turbo and there is a turbine wheel bouncing around.

 

[Breezio69]

That's kinda where I was going on my initial read ^^^

Best thing you can do on the leak is wipe it all up and start it and just watch with a flashlight. Remove your turbo heat shield and anything else around that area where the leak and the vibration is coming from to be able to investigate it. You can use a long screwdriver as a stethoscope to find the rattle, just stick the tip of it on a part and put your ear up to the handle.


Edit: also, just to be that guy I have to ask........ have you checked your intercooler piping and couplers to make sure one isn't blown off or anything? My car would idle and Rev with one blown apart but would not drive... just another thing to check before you break out the tools

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I wouldn't be shocked if you snapped the shaft on your turbo and there is a turbine wheel bouncing around.

What's the most efficient way of checking for that? Noob question, but I'd like to streamline the process if I can.

Best thing you can do on the leak is wipe it all up and start it and just watch with a flashlight.

I plan to get a new gasket and replace it anyway. After that I'll place some paper in the area and see if I get any oil spots. I'll top it up with cheap oil so I can safely run the engine until I get this sorted out.

Edit: also, just to be that guy I have to ask........ have you checked your intercooler piping and couplers to make sure one isn't blown off or anything?

I haven't. I'll do that before I start taking things apart. That wouldn't explain the rattling though, right?

 

[Breezio69]

I had an extravagant post all lined out and when I hit submit it said server error and got lost in the abyss.....

So you already know where the oil leak is coming from? I thought the spray was unknown? So if that's figured out its on to the rattle.... on a side note, id recommend maybe cutting a cardboard box in half on the ground over paper in the engine bay... paper starts smoking, you can't grab it ### its hot, paper starts on fire with oil on it... worse than a leak IMO. Just lay some cardboard down and use a light

Rattle. I can't tell you where it is but you also haven't said where you think it is... first, remove or tighten down any heat shields. Next, (when its cold) check that the o2 sensors haven't rattled out of the bungs, there are 2. After that, start at one end of the engine bay and work to the other with a set of wrenches to find any loose bolts or brackets. If there are none that leaves you with a couple other areas. Turbo is shot, cat is shot, something internal.

And to.answer the intercooler piping being loose or out of a coupler, it will run like crap and if you have hard intercooler piping it can rattle on the chassis somewhere. Also a boost leak will make it run like crap under boost and you sill hit fuel cut ( like hitting a brick wall at 30-40-50 MPH)

Hope this gives you some things to check

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Sorry for the late reply. I've been both very busy and lazy lately.

So you already know where the oil leak is coming from? I thought the spray was unknown?

Yeah, it's coming from the valve cover gasket.

I think my turbo is shot. I used a long breaker bar as a stethoscope and the rattling sound is loudest on the turbo itself. My car does have 170k miles on it.

So for now I think I'd like to simply replace the turbo with another stock T25. Out of curiosity if I get, for example, a 16G and adapter kit could I replace just the turbo without modifying the rest just yet and have it work for now? I want to eventually modify the Eclipse, but my current situation wouldn't be best for that. I'd just like to avoid buying a turbo twice.

Any idea what a good T25 would go for? eBay ones are probably going to be expensive. What should a junkyard one cost me?

 

[WES_393]

So for now I think I'd like to simply replace the turbo with another stock T25. Out of curiosity if I get, for example, a 16G and adapter kit could I replace just the turbo without modifying the rest just yet and have it work for now? I want to eventually modify the Eclipse, but my current situation wouldn't be best for that. I'd just like to avoid buying a turbo twice.

If you can afford it, I would highly suggest a 14b or 16g. The T25 just isn't a very good turbo, not only in terms of performance but reliability as well. You wouldn't need any supporting mods to run a 14b/16g at stock boost. They can be found in good condition for $200-300.

To install you would just need to modify the drain, install a new feed (stock 1g or aftermarket), and adapt the turbo to your intercooler (1g pipes would work). The water lines could also be easily adapted to work, but aren't totally necessary so long as you avoid hot shut down.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

If you can afford it, I would highly suggest a 14b or 16g. The T25 just isn't a very good turbo, not only in terms of performance but reliability as well. You wouldn't need any supporting mods to run a 14b/16g at stock boost. They can be found in good condition for $200-300.

To install you would just need to modify the drain, install a new feed (stock 1g or aftermarket), and adapt the turbo to your intercooler (1g pipes would work). The water lines could also be easily adapted to work, but aren't totally necessary so long as you avoid hot shut down.

Thanks. Can you recommend a guide for doing so? I'm kinda limited by time, unfortunately. So searching eBay or Craigslist for a good replacement might not be that feasible. I might end up throwing in a T25 for now. I'm due for emissions this month.

 

[WES_393]

I don't know of a guide off the top of my head. Try searching through the tech articles. If you can't find anything, feel free to PM me and I can explain the basics.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Much appreciated.

 

[dot45]

EVO 16G install

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

EVO 16G install

Thanks. I'll update when I decide/find whatever I end up with.

 

[dot45]

No problem, found it when I was searching. I picked up the install kit, just have to find time now that its warm out.

 

[Hesh724]

I bet it would be pretty easy to do a quick look inside the cold side of the turbo may help. good luck

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I picked up a stock turbo with almost no shaft play and the stock exhaust manifold (because it was still attached to it). I'll swap that in as soon as the weather is dry enough to do so. It's supposed to rain much of this week.

What do I need to get to do the swap? What gaskets, etc?

 

[dot45]

Definitely need a new exhaust manifold to block gasket, I think the turbo needs to come off to bolt the manifold on the car (I haven't tried to take mine off yet, but assume it'd at least be easier.) If that is the case you need a turbo to manifold gasket. Also need the gasket from the turbo to the o2 housing. (unless that's still on the turbo you picked up.) and the gasket to the downpipe.

 

[Breezio69]

Honestly it would be wise to replace them all while you've got it just sitting there... they seem to go out in fours around these parts.

I replaced my manifold to head gasket a couple thousand ago, then the turbo to manifold went, then the downpipe went... now I have a cometic o2 to turbo gasket in the mail as we speak, haha.

Might as well do it now and save the hassle on it when its all installed. I think I'm around $50 in gaskets, and the head to manifold was $30 of that. So its not like it will break the bank to just seal it all up now..

I also went with stainless gaskets on all of them but the head, they'll probably outlast the car.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I'm at work right now and browsing from my phone, so would anyone mind linking me to the gaskets in question? If not I'll try and look it up when I get home. I figure that'll help me do it right the first time. The Eclipse is due for emissions at the end of this month and I've been distracted with other obligations for most of the month...

 

[Breezio69]

Ill get links up on what I bought. I got them all off ebay. If you sesrch dsm gasket they will allllll come up. Theres a kit that has a o2 housing gasket and turbo to manifold gasket for like $18 both stainless. Then the exhaust manifold gasket is your choice around $15-$30, I went with a double layer copper, the other gasket for the downpipe is a universal 2.5" 2 hole exhaust gasket.

Ill be back

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=181069454259&index=15&nav=SEARCH&nid=32128290834
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=380632591086&index=10&nav=SEARCH&nid=18048703605
Or
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=280534966450&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=54710973472
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=390598135128&index=6&nav=SEARCH&nid=76578519356

To make things easier they can probably all be had locally, but they will be sandwich type gaskets. I went with these becauseI wanted to replace them all with ss

Also, I went with a couple different gaskets than what I posted, my turbo to manifold gasket is a 3 layer ss in 7cm... but you don't need the 7cm with that turbo unless you port it. And I couldn't find the downpipe gasket I ordered initially.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I was hoping to not have to take my exhaust manifold off because I know that the studs tend to be weak. I took the heat shields off of my car and noticed that 2 of my stud heads are missing. There's also a small crack in my exhaust manifold.

The exhaust manifold that is still attached to the replacement turbo has one of the stud heads snapped off. It also has the O2 housing on it.

So, for now I'm spraying everything with penetrating oil and I'll spray everything a new times a day over the next couple of days. How hard is it to get the turbo off from the exhaust manifold? Should I just try to take my manifold off and slip new turbo/manifold/O2 housing in as one complete unit?

 

[WES_393]

In my opinion, your best bet is to remove the O2 housing, turbo, and manifold in one piece.

Remove the intake piping, vacuum lines, oil/water lines, and unplug the O2 sensor. I'd also suggest removing the radiator to make your life much easier. Then unbolt the O2 housing from the downpipe, unbolt the manifold from the head, slide the exhaust manifold forward to get it off the studs, and then lift the whole mess of metal straight up.

Once you have the whole unit out on the bench it's much easier to separate them and repair/replace any broken fasteners. You'll need new studs for the missing ones and hopefully they aren't stripped out. I don't recall what size the studs are, but a quick search would let you know. It would also be a good idea to degrease the engine bay before getting started, your engine has some serious grease buildup.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Ok, life as been pretty busy lately. I finally got around to the Eclipse. I have everything I need apart. The air intake piping has oil in it. The turbo itself is pretty bad. There's tons and tons of shaft play. Something is broken inside it.

Anyway, I went and drilled out the studs and replaced them with new. I went to install the "new" turbo and realized that my Autozone gasket kit didn't seem right. The gasket to the oil line with the flex in it seemed too small and made of paper. The gasket for the O2 housing to the J pipe was paper and had 4 bolt holes in it. It was X shaped. The exhaust manifold gasket seemed like graphite.

Screw it. I went to Autozone to save time as I previously was short on time. But for now I can be more patient and I'll do it right.

So, I need the exhaust manifold gasket, gasket for the O2 housing to the J pipe, and the gasket for the oil line with the flex in it. The new turbo exhaust manifold, and O2 housing are all together so the gaskets for those to mate together aren't needed.

Anyone mind recommending some to me?

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I ordered OEM gaskets. I got the car put back together. The new turbo spools beautifully and she drives as smooth as ever. There are other problems, but that's for another thread. Thanks all.