Drifting [Merged 9-8]

[sential]

I hate when people make ignorant statements comparing drifting to figure skating. That's the stupidest analogy i've ever heard. If that is true then lets just compare drag racing a 100 yard dash...on ice skates. In all honesty i'd probably rather watch people do crazy stuff on ice skates, than watch people race on ice skates....Wow look at the level I had to stoop to for that comment.

Now as far as drifting vs. drag racing. There's no way to say one is better than the other. They are different in many ways. Yes drag racing is based on numbers, and drifting is, for the most part, judged. But just because something is judged doesn't mean it loses any validity.

Drifting takes insane amounts of skill...TO DO IT RIGHT. Any tool, can go haul ass through a parking lot and pull his e-brake to get his car sideways, but that's not drifting. Real drifting involves going through a track while getting a car through a series of turns without losing much, if any speed at all. It involves a lot of anticipating a turn and knowing when to brake and when to turn and when to floor it to break traction. And depending on which drivetrain you have, its a different story for each one.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings... I just think drifting deserves more respect.

 

[turbo3000dsm]

I have some great vids of drifting, but i dont know how to upload the vids also have some great pictures too... can anyone help

 

[FrostBite]

email them to me at [email protected] and ill host them

 

[FrostBite]

http://s25.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2PTQW078062CO3L61R55YK5YBQ

looks like you had fun

 

[KlaSoliz]

I own an AWD Talon, it may seem that our AWD cars arent drifting, if youve ever drifted it on pavement instead of snow. But they are, its just not as much counter steering. Since AWD have more power in the rear than the front, we can still drift nicely. I love drifting my Talon, I think im pretty good at it. Ive had one crash drifting(Bad, bad damage to passenger side) all I needed to do was replace the passenger side and get a new front passenger rotor and brake caliper. (Which I wanted new rotors, calipers and brake pads). Anyways when I drift I think I am alright and I got some skill at the sport. (AND IT IS A SPORT) But when I get in the passenger seat of my friends Turbo Starion, it blows my mind connecting corners(S-turn drifts), Feint drifts, coast drifts, power drifts, he does it all. Even in the passenger seat my adrenaline pumps and it blows my mind. He let me drift his Starion and it got away from me when I tried it in his car, it was crazy, even with a stock LSD. I havent ever seen drifting in real life, but he is a great drifter, he had a front wheel drive Protege and then things are gutless. So I suggest everyone to try drifting on a safe track or empty parking lot with cones to help(two does set about 10 feet from each other at slow speeds). FWD, RWD, or AWD, any car can be drifted, just takes alot of skill and knowledge of your car. And beable to control your car in any situation. Autocross cone racing is a good way to practice drifting with spectators, if your going there to have fun instead of winning the time challenge.

 

[JiveMasterT]

I own an AWD Talon, it may seem that our AWD cars arent drifting, if youve ever drifted it on pavement instead of snow. But they are, its just not as much counter steering. Since AWD have more power in the rear than the front, we can still drift nicely. I love drifting my Talon, I think im pretty good at it. Ive had one crash drifting(Bad, bad damage to passenger side) all I needed to do was replace the passenger side and get a new front passenger rotor and brake caliper. (Which I wanted new rotors, calipers and brake pads). Anyways when I drift I think I am alright and I got some skill at the sport. (AND IT IS A SPORT) But when I get in the passenger seat of my friends Turbo Starion, it blows my mind connecting corners(S-turn drifts), Feint drifts, coast drifts, power drifts, he does it all. Even in the passenger seat my adrenaline pumps and it blows my mind. He let me drift his Starion and it got away from me when I tried it in his car, it was crazy, even with a stock LSD. I havent ever seen drifting in real life, but he is a great drifter, he had a front wheel drive Protege and then things are gutless. So I suggest everyone to try drifting on a safe track or empty parking lot with cones to help(two does set about 10 feet from each other at slow speeds). FWD, RWD, or AWD, any car can be drifted, just takes alot of skill and knowledge of your car. And beable to control your car in any situation. Autocross cone racing is a good way to practice drifting with spectators, if your going there to have fun instead of winning the time challenge.

you're right, drifting awd is different than drifting rwd. watch initial d, its cool. however, awd has a 50/50 power ration between the front and rear of the car. look it up if you dont believe me. this has been beaten to death.

 

[Revolution]

Whats up guys, I will take this opportunaty to explain how awd works and certain fundamentals to drifting.

First off I would like to address Initial -d. I personally love watching initial d because the creators actually researched alot when implamenting different techniques into the anime series, like how grip driving was just as important of a technique as drifting( plz refer the grip comment to cetain episodes like rye vs. tak and stage four when tak faces the todu juko pro).

I will vouch for drifting as an actual racing technique but I will not overplay it's role in the racing world and will not say it's the if all and all to racing and taking corners.
The fundamentals in grip driving are pretty much the same as drifting the only difference to them is their methods of attacking a corners apex.

In my experiences with drifting my awd talon, the reason for myself looking at drifting as a means of tackeling a corner was the bloody car would have a tendancy to lose grip forcing me to understeer instead of following through with my steering imputs. Hence a need to swing the rear around to allow me a better way of dealing with this sudden loss of traction experienced when taking a corner at a certain speed .

To state that awd cars have a 50/50 torque split would be wrongin alot of ways. A car with a 50/50 split would not like turning at all becasue the rear wheels follow a shorter path then the fronts do, because of this their would be alot of understeer. When looking at awd systems you tend to look at how this tourqe is being controled ,for example take the skyline gtr. The torque split is already pre-loaded making it something like 20front and 80 in the back , but when the car is at idle it's really more like 5 in the front and 95 in the back.The awd system makes the car primarily a rwd car then when it senses that the rears will break loose a small arm applies a specificly calculated amount of force to a torque plat wich sends more torque forward.

The audi tt starts off primarilly as a front wheel drive car having a split somewhere along the lines of 70 front and 30 in the rear.

This could be said of the talons and eclipses , being primarilly frontwheel drive cars and sending more torque rearwords when need be, this is all done through the viscous center differential wich uses a special type of mukes to apply force to the actual lsd unit wich intern send as much torque rearword as needed.

Hence no car is ever 50/50 but very different all together. If we wanted to drift easier a 35/65 center diff would be warrented , but it's affects on certain components such as the drive shafts and axles could not be speculated because of un- informed (first hand ) experiences.

To be able to drift our awd cars you have to think alittle bit more rationally. If you arent going to spend thousands of dallores on either suspension parts or drivetrain parts then I would suggest using different tires for the front and the back. Having the rear tires being almost bawld helps. But Using a method like this wont help you in any form of racing at all because sacrificing grip would be the end of any asperation of winning and would only benefit in the form of showing off.

So to make a few things clear, a drift is a technique used to take advantage of that loss of traction you experience when in the braking zone to utilize whatever traction you might have avalable ,and reposition the car to stay within the shortest route through the corner.

I hope this helped and hasnt confused anybody. P.s unless it's a welded diff a talon doesnt have a 50/50 split .

Now go jump in a go kart and practice reading turns and drifting

 

[CMiuc12s]

Well the first race in my new 91 GSX I took an MKIII. Then I was going to go head to head aginst a stock WRX. Well he jumped on me before getting afound this corner. Well needless to say we both went into this corner at 80+ mph and both drifted around it side by side! Holy shiznit! Did not expect it but it happen! Now I wish that we had it on video! It was the most awesome thing I have ever done. I felt like it happen in slowmo.

 

[JiveMasterT]

Well the first race in my new 91 GSX I took an MKIII. Then I was going to go head to head aginst a stock WRX. Well he jumped on me before getting afound this corner. Well needless to say we both went into this corner at 80+ mph and both drifted around it side by side! Holy shiznit! Did not expect it but it happen! Now I wish that we had it on video! It was the most awesome thing I have ever done. I felt like it happen in slowmo.

and this is why drifting is done on a closed track. drifting should not be attempted by amateurs on public roads. i dont want blood on my hands, and i certainly dont want to be nailed in a box.

 

[TheDominantGene]

It's fun in the snow though

im sure your moms pontiac would disagree with you

Drifting is fun to watch, and just as destructive as drag racing on a car. But when it comes to your competitive side, saying my car can outrun yours sounds alot better than saying my car can slide better than yours. Its just the way the competitive side of a human is. And yes, in a competition, i would rather have an un-opinionated judgement made, rather than someone judging that could be having a bad day.

 

[BOOstGhost]

I dont get why people dislike drifting so much. It takes allot more skill then running the 1/4 I think.

it's trendy and a fad, most ricers want to drift, straightline performance is Americana. I will say that drifting is fun, although i think it's stupid

 

[pocketchange]

Its really hard to drift in an awd car. You can only do 4 wheel drifts I believe. You should watch/rent/downolad/ Drift Bible.

for SHURE!...drift bible with the drift king is a good step by step video on the many techniques on drifting....since i got into drifting now i dont even want my dsm, cuz ya just cant really do it w/o that rear wheel drive so your tires keep spinning and shit..so im bout to get an rx-7. other great cars to get if your into drifting is 240sx, rx-7, mr-2, or supra...might be more i think but those are the ones off the top opf my head

 

[gsxeclipsed]

drifting takes alot of skill!

QUOTE]

This is why its a racing because i think of racing as using your skills in your car.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Man into the third page on a topic of drifting and no one has mentioned rally. For those of you that say drifting doesn't have a place in racing or that it's not a sport or bla bla bla bla bla you should spend more time watching Rally. I know it's not the new trendy drifting but it is the grandfather of the sport and in my opinion kills drag racing and drifting. Your racing against the clock, it rarely about style (Although I have seen drivers add a little flair at spectator points) It's all about finding the fastest way down the road.
I doubt any one will take this to heart but it always annoys me how someone will post saying you need a RWD to drift then two pages later after a number of people have said they personally drift a FWD or AWD someone else posts saying they wish they had a RWD so they could drift. YOU DON'T NEED RWD TO DRIFT
I think drifting has gotten a bit of a bad rap from some of the die hard car people because of the way it hit pop culture. The same way thousands of 16 year old kids saw the F&F and decided they wanted to make their cars look fast they saw underground videos of 1000 HP supras drifting and decided they wanted to do that too. I respect the sport there are just so many posers out there you don't believe it when someone says they are a drifter or want to become one.
If any of you want to put drifting together with timed competition check out rally. Of course I think most drifters do it because they want every body to see it. If that's you you would have to get into WRC otherwise there is little fame in rally but how much more fun can you have than doing 140 mph down some dirt road out in the woods slowing down to 70 to enter a corner and staring at the road out of the drivers side window.

 

[JessesTalon]

Man into the third page on a topic of drifting and no one has mentioned rally. For those of you that say drifting doesn't have a place in racing or that it's not a sport or bla bla bla bla bla you should spend more time watching Rally. I know it's not the new trendy drifting but it is the grandfather of the sport and in my opinion kills drag racing and drifting. Your racing against the clock, it rarely about style (Although I have seen drivers add a little flair at spectator points) It's all about finding the fastest way down the road.
I doubt any one will take this to heart but it always annoys me how someone will post saying you need a RWD to drift then two pages later after a number of people have said they personally drift a FWD or AWD someone else posts saying they wish they had a RWD so they could drift. YOU DON'T NEED RWD TO DRIFT
I think drifting has gotten a bit of a bad rap from some of the die hard car people because of the way it hit pop culture. The same way thousands of 16 year old kids saw the F&F and decided they wanted to make their cars look fast they saw underground videos of 1000 HP supras drifting and decided they wanted to do that too. I respect the sport there are just so many posers out there you don't believe it when someone says they are a drifter or want to become one.
If any of you want to put drifting together with timed competition check out rally. Of course I think most drifters do it because they want every body to see it. If that's you you would have to get into WRC otherwise there is little fame in rally but how much more fun can you have than doing 140 mph down some dirt road out in the woods slowing down to 70 to enter a corner and staring at the road out of the drivers side window.

Summer, Technically what you are describing is not Drifting.


If you want to get all technical about it here it is.

Drifting is getting sideways BEFORE the turn starts and being sideways all through the corner and coming out sideways and then straigtening out.

in awd in tight corners that is almost impossible, AWD drifts are usually on long long sweeping corners, you have to carry so much more speed through it and before it and it is much more dangerous, which is why in Drift events in america and japan how many fwd/awd "drifters" do you see... none

fwd in any way is not drifting there is no way you can stay sideways before the corner, through it, or out of it...


I have AWD and I have a AE86 RWD.... you need RWD to drift properly you can try in your awd but unless you got enough HP to burn all 4 tires all the way through a turn... Good luck with that.

is it possible for AWD to drift.... yes does it cost ALOT more and is ALOT harder yes it is, plain and simple.

My Stock 70 hp RWD corolla can drift right out of the box... can your stock out of the box fwd do it? no Can your stock out of the box AWD do it... probably not.

Anybody who actually drifts in real life knows this and althought it is POSSIBLE in AWD its not Practical.

 

[Chromespyder]

U have obviously never put a 7 or 8 second street car down the track on a set of DOT's!!!! Drifting huh-- so that's what they call it these days?20 yrs. ago 90+mph on a gravel road was just called a fun afternoon :laugh: (as long as u didn't hit those 4ft. deep ditches on each side!!) fun--yea i'll give u that,but with a little practice almost anyone can drift.Not just anyone can pilot a 7 second street car!!!

Exactly.well, even if i'm only 21, we used to do that stuff. take the biggest beater we got and turn it loose on the gravel roads. if it falls in the ditch, big deal, we pull it out and get it runniong again. we didn't know what it was called, but we did it all the same.

hell, i do it in my spyder(just sliding around on gravel that is), the eagle wagon, and our trucks at work. you know you have skill if you can slide an F-350 with a plow attached at 50mph, and still be in control.

i believe both things require the same amount of skill.
draggin with FWD(AWD? never dealt with awd's before), you correct torque-steer, calculate launch rpm's, and shifting techniques.

i dont know about skills in "drifting"(sliding) but when i slide the trucks and my eagle, you know when to and not to goose the gas, know exactly where to steer, and to get the vehicle back in your control.

RWD is the best way to drift or whatever. easy as all hell, but takes time(and practice) to keep the slide totally in your control.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Summer, Technically what you are describing is not Drifting.


If you want to get all technical about it here it is.

Drifting is getting sideways BEFORE the turn starts and being sideways all through the corner and coming out sideways and then straigtening out.
.

Actually that is very often how they drift in rally.
I know there is a big difference between dirt and pavement but on dirt you can easily drift in just about any car. In fact on dirt I would say wheelbase and weight balance have more to do with how hard a car is to drift on dirt. On pavement it is different and in a front wheel drive maybe you can't make it look as pretty but it's still a matter of balance traction and dynamics. Yes in an AWD it is much harder to drift in tight corners but if your racing it's all about knowing which corners will be faster sticking to the road and will be faster sliding through. Another thing is you don't need an outrageous amount of HP to get your wheel spinning when you are sliding. Since you are already sliding it should take considerably less power to get a little wheel spin.

 

[greycar]

Drift racing is the NASCAR of the import scene. And yes you can drift a AWD DSM but you need to setup correctly.

I drift race my Galant VR4, but on dirt and snow, none of this ####y parking lot shit below 60mph with no trees to hit at a 100+mph.

 

[JessesTalon]

Summer, greycar you are forgetting we are not talking about going as fast as possible... were talking about drifting... the whole point of drifting is for show... there is really no benefit for drifting in "racing"

if you want to take turns fast then your gripping it not drifting it.

The kind of "drifting" we are talking about here is NOT on ice, snow, dirt, were talking about on the race course on dry/wet pavement or on the street going sideways before during and milding through the end of the corner while straightening out or getting ready to be sideways for the next corner...

Although there are many types of "Drifting" we are not talking about the ones you are talking about.


yes Drifting takes as much if not more skill then gripping but it also requires a car that is RWD or a AWD car setup up with more power in the rear and lots of HEAVY modification and crappy bald tires that are hard as rocks.

EVEN with all that to a AWD car... it is going to be impossible to duplicate a drift from a crappy lil AE86 with 60whp or anything rwd for that matter... my dads Dodge dakota sport truck drifts better then ANY DSM ive ever seen try.

 

[greycar]

Hey my comment was just how ### drifting is, and the FACT THAT IT IS THE NASCAR OF THE IMPORT SCENE.

It doesn't take shit to drift a 450whp rear drive car around a parking lot, if you want to talk about drifting skill, look at the rally drivers, they do it how it should be done....fast and unpredicted

NASCAR is for show just like D1, spectators cram into the stands to watch a crash, neither sport requires much skill, in fact I bet NASCAR requires more.

I bet if you ask Rhyse Millen what is harder rallying or drifting he'll say rallying, but hes gotta get paid somehow.

I suck. so don't get pissed at my post just me opening my mouth again get over it

 

[omegis13]

Just for the record, I recently saw a dvd of a drift competition in LA with Rhys Millen Drifting an evo,, so it is not impossible to drift with AWD, let alone a DSM, its all about having the proper suspension setup for the particular car you are driving. In all reality, any vehicle can be "drifted", its just a hell of a lot easier to do it in some than in others. I have a video of a semi truck drifting, have seen and read about "ff drifting" (real "drifters" ie, fr guys don't consider it drifting, but I think they have a bug up their arses), and now, D1 Japan has begun accepting FF entries. However, I will say that I would rather be dragging than sliding

Greg Heineken

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Now wouldn't it be fun to pul up to a drifting comp in your semi truck.
Would that go in RWD or 8 wheel drive class

 

[Revolution]

Drift racing is the NASCAR of the import scene. And yes you can drift a AWD DSM but you need to setup correctly.

I drift race my Galant VR4, but on dirt and snow, none of this ####y parking lot shit below 60mph with no trees to hit at a 100+mph.

Whats wrong with going through a series of turns at 60 plus in a parking lot?

I do it so does that make me shity? Hmm I would refrain from making comments like that ,even though everyone is intiteled to their own opinions theirs always a way of stating them, and that my friend was the wrong way.

Not to be picking on you but I'd rather not hit a tree with the car I've invested 18 thousand dollares on (cad) and learn how to propelry use whatever power I've got .After solo2 is solo1 and then touring. Befor you can run you have to crawl.

P.s Have you ever featherd the throttle through a chicane doing 70km/ph in you'r 10 sec car?

Let me know how it goes... and p.s drifting takes alot more skill then nascar if you dont beleive me and think it's so easy then you join the d1 challange and post your progress.

Dont mind me im just being honest with you ,,or I could lie and tell you that your absolutely right.

P.S Congrats on such a run you must have hit a pretty good tree.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Whats wrong with going through a series of turns at 60 plus in a parking lot?

I do it so does that make me shity? Hmm I would refrain from making comments like that ,even though everyone is intiteled to their own opinions theirs always a way of stating them, and that my friend was the wrong way.

Not to be picking on you but I'd rather not hit a tree with the car I've invested 18 thousand dollares on (cad) and learn how to propelry use whatever power I've got .After solo2 is solo1 and then touring. Befor you can run you have to crawl.

P.s Have you ever featherd the throttle through a chicane doing 70km/ph in you'r 10 sec car?

Let me know how it goes... and p.s drifting takes alot more skill then nascar if you dont beleive me and think it's so easy then you join the d1 challange and post your progress.

Dont mind me im just being honest with you ,,or I could lie and tell you that your absolutely right.

P.S Congrats on such a run you must have hit a pretty good tree.

Okay I used to mess around in parking lots when I was a kid but it's illegeal, it's still dangerous but instead of endangering yourself and trees your endangering people, pets, yourself and your drivers liscence. I also think he is refering to (and if not I am refering to) the people who go out and do a few donuts or try drifting around some imaginary corners and all of a sudden think their a pro.
I also don't think he was comparing Nascar and drifting on a level of skill but instead popularity. If you compared it to music Nascar and the popular form of drifting coulde be compared to nelly and rally could be compared to squarepusher. IMO
Nascar is not my kind of racing but I do know there is at least a comparable levle of skill required to take a stock car around a track at 200 & some odd MPH. In fact I don't think you can say any kind of any thing takes any more skill than any thing else, it's all a matter of what level you take it too.

And who was this aimed at? "Have you ever featherd the throttle through a chicane doing 70km/ph in you'r 10 sec car"
I have but I don't have a ten second car.
Have you ever feathered the gas going 90 (oh and that would be MPH not KPH to avoid any confusion) through a sweeping corner on dirt sideways enough you need to use your side windows to spot your exit with a sharp dropoff on the outside and a rock face on the inside. That's what I call drifting

Have fun running over cats and light poles.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Drifting is getting sideways BEFORE the turn starts and being sideways all through the corner and coming out sideways and then straigtening out.

I did just notice a difference between what you are describing and drifting for speed.
It does look nice when your still sideways coming out of the corner and that is a flare added in drifting comps. In performance drifting you would want to be getting sideways before the corner kiss the apex with your inside front tire and be completly straightend out by the time you exit the corner. It's still considered drifting. From a performance standpoint drifting scrubbs speed and allowes you to come into a corner faster but once you pass the apex you no longer want to be scrubbing speed, you want to be maximizing acceleration out of the corner.