Drifting [Merged 9-8]

[jtmcinder]

While it is possible to get a FWD to oversteer (although it's usually just a snap-spin, which really shouldn't be thought of as oversteer), you cannot drift a FWD in anything like the sense that this term has come to mean. Drifting is power-on oversteer and FWDs don't do this. Heck, unless you have something like a Cucso 35/65 center diff, you can't get an AWD to do it, either.

- Jtoby

ps. if the inside edges of your tires are wearing faster than the outsides, have your toe checked; did you lower the car and not have it re-aligned?

 

[miamieclipse]

my car was lowered by the previous owner & he left stock shocks on. So i purchased new springs & shocks but i did have the car re-aligned. I think my camber might be going bad, i know this is a noobish question but where can i purchase one for front & back?

Yea the car felt in control but it scared the sh** out of me , and i slowed down becasue it was an on-ramp and had grass on both sides i didnt want to roll off

thanks, mike

 

[DG-FNR]

Congradulations, you have just discovered the slip angle.

As a tire becomes more increasingly laterally loaded, it distorts. The direction that the car is HEADED is not the same as the direction the tire is POINTED. The angle between them is called the "slip angle".

The name is misleading, because there's no actual "slipping" or "sliding" involved - the tire is still connected to the ground. But it's made out of rubber, right? It stretches.

Lateral grip increases with increased slip angle - up to a point. Any more lateral load, and the tire can't stretch far enough, and parts of it either rip off, or the contact patch starts to let go, and lateral grip starts to decrease.

If you graph this, with grip on the Y axis and slip angle on the X axis, you get a "hill". Maximum grip occurs at the top of the hill, normally somewhere in the range of 8-15 degrees slip.

On a race tire, the hill is very tall, but peaky. There is a very specific slip angle that provides max grip, and much farther past this point and grip starts to fall off very quickly. Street tires tend to be lower and "flatter".

What you were probably feeling was the sensation of going off the top of the hill. Slip angle was increasing, but grip was decreasing. This can feel like "sliding", even though the car isn't really sliding.

What it IS doing though is getting ready to fall off the road. You have crossed the slip angle peak and are rapidly approaching the limit of adhesion (when the tire lets go) IE, you were going too damn fast.

Slow down. Public streets are no place to be exploring tire dynamics.

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

Slow down. Public streets are no place to be exploring tire dynamics./QUOTE]

It's funny. Dennis and I do not get along in general, but this is the one thing that we have always agreed on. (In fact, this is the topic that first got us in contact with each other - too bad we couldn't stay focused on what we have in common, but that's for me and the guy with the Viennese accent sitting upright in the chair behind me, isn't it?)

Go to http://scca.com and click "find a region near you" and go to an autocross. That's where you can do all the exploring you wish.

- Jtoby

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

my car was lowered by the previous owner & he left stock shocks on. So i purchased new springs & shocks but i did have the car re-aligned. I think my camber might be going bad, i know this is a noobish question but where can i purchase one for front & back?

Yea the car felt in control but it scared the sh** out of me , and i slowed down becasue it was an on-ramp and had grass on both sides i didnt want to roll off

thanks, mike

I'm not saying this is a good idea, but as a LEARNING experience:

Go to a very big, big flat grassy field with your FWD eclipse, and drive around slowly, or at a very slow-moderate/in-control speed, and turn hard left, and turn hard right, etc...etc...
The result:
You'll lose traction ALL OVER the place, and you'll feel your car understeer like hell, and when you pull the e-brake , you can get your rear end to come around you. Driving in a flat grassy field, will amplify how your car will feel when you begin to slide on dry cement. And if you can learn the natural tendancies of how your car will pitch and break sideways in your FWD car, you'll be better abled to deal with situations of low traction on the road. (For example, driving in the rain.)

(I'm not saying drifting in a big and isolated flat grassy field is a good idea, but if you do it SLOWLY and GRADUALLY and in-control, and not infront of the police, or any people, then you'll be fine.) Just keep in mind that drifting on purpose in public is illegal, and considered wreckless driving. But what is "wreckless driving anyway?

 

[miamieclipse]

I was at a car meet and cops came. They were cool tho, they made fun of the fact there was 100 cars, 150 guys and only 60 girls . THey said next time they come they better have 2 girls for each on of them (thats what i call Law Enforcement )

But we asked them all stupid questions , for example would he ever pull anyone over for drifting (kid in a 240 asked, figures ) and the cop said "If he can keep it one lane he would not pull him over.

Oh he also told us stories, never laughed so hard in my life...

 

[nelapse]

becareful of drifting and dont take it very lightly, before my DSM i had a 00 Z24 cavalier
Ive decided to take my buddy on some high speed turns..60 mph on some hair pins, next thing i knew was that my rear end spun out and hit a ditch at such force my car rolled 4 times, it rolled into a pond upside down... luckily my friend and i swam out of my door since his was smashed and once my adreniline depleted i woke up in a hospital stretcher with neck back and head injuries...
My advice to new people at drifting is take it slow, get the feel. Dont rush the learning process... Im finally getting my nerve back on the corners.. firefighters told me i should have died that night. Dont make the same mistakes...
Make sure when you practice its on flat ground, theres still some chance you will roll but not as bad as unlevel area..

 

[realhp=turbo]

Dont worry nelapse, that wont happen again when you put those new brakes on,

 

[shortracer]

Does anyone here drift? I see its becoming more popular. I think its fun to watch but there is no way in hell I would drift my car. Tires are expensive enough as it is and I really dont feel like kissing the wall.

 

[big green]

Its really hard to drift in an awd car. You can only do 4 wheel drifts I believe. You should watch/rent/downolad/ Drift Bible.

 

[98spydert]

Yeah, the tire issue kinda turns me off to it. Eating through tires every couple events isn't fun. Also, itt's bad enough risking breaking things in a 1/4 mile or just messing around on the highway but drifting is pretty hard on cars and unless you've got one built for it, I don't think it's a good idea. just my opinion though...

 

[lowridin2g]

i absolutely hate drifting, just my opinion though

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

i've drifted a few times in my 91 rx-7 i used to have. its scary as hell the first few times u try it. try sitting next to someone while they do it. its even scarier .

 

[1G/TS-ituner]

It's fun in the snow though

 

[ldstang50]

i became a drifter when i was in okinawa, ja. had a 3rd gen rx7. also used a friends 180sx which i put into a guiderail (the rear tires caught a rut in the middle a drift and pulled me into it). its really fun, i love it. if i had a rwd car i would be drifting it

 

[Defiant]

i absolutely hate drifting, just my opinion though

Drifting is to driving what the backward baseball cap is to millinery.

 

[Rx3]

Drifting is to driving what the backward baseball cap is to millinery.

I don't get it. What is the correlation between the (wearing of) backwards baseball cap and women's clothing?

 

[big green]

I dont get why people dislike drifting so much. It takes allot more skill then running the 1/4 I think.

 

[DSM_GSX4life]

if i had a RWD car and money to spend on new tires I would be drifting for sure. But i am spending all my money to get my car faster. Oh well.

 

[98spydert]

I dont get why people dislike drifting so much. It takes allot more skill then running the 1/4 I think.

I don't think it has to do with the skill involved. People aren't saying, "Damn that shits to hard, I'm stickin to a short, straight line!"

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

drifting takes alot of skill!

I know i was a basher a while back ago but i'll tell you after our experience in competition and building drift cars and our project AE86 it is more fun than anything i've done in a car. If you ever get a chance to do a ride along with a pro drifter at an event dont pass it up, it will be the most exciting thing you can do on 4 wheels. plus the pros slide at 100+MPH while we tend to stay around 40-75mph.

Tires are an issue i know in a single day of competition we can go through 4 rear tires.

 

[Endz0r]

drifting is to racing as the home run derby is for baseball. it's pretty much just looking good.

 

[volcom121]

I must say drifting is addictive. My first car was a 240sx i came to drifting bout 3 years ago when it wasn't really known that well in the states. I dumped in the sr20det redtop kazz lsd in the rearend. The regular motor upgrades and i was off. Great fun...emisions came up and i failed miserably. Threatened to suspend my license so i sold the car to some kid in iowa. I also drifted my 2g rx7. Its a great sport and yes there is alot of skill required. Lots of foot action (Heel toe driving, feathering throttle to keep em spinning), lots of hand eye coordination, and lots of balls. No-one drifts awd cars in the pros, don't think its possible/smart. Definately not w/ a dsm. You'd break something on the first slide. Fwd cars are out of the question as well. Every now and then you'll see a skyline, but thats rear wheel drive. If someone wants to get into drifting, i'd recomend getting a 2g rx7 turbo. Not that expensive, clean lines, and a very underated car. The 240's and AE86's are getting to popular and people want loads for them.

 

[JessesTalon]

I drift my AE86 when it rains (everynight pretty much).... and sometimes my subaru if its really slick...

my AE86 is underpowered up the ass its hard, but i can do it, its much more fun than straight line...

but then again going straight really fast is almost as big of a rush to me as drifting. Drifting def takes more skill... escpecially when u drive a 2000 pound 70 hp corolla....

My subie likes to drift in the wet though, that is just freaky because it will drift at any speed...

 

[mxpimp18]

I drift my 90 gsx all the time when it rains in Washington which is all the time.