Doing BSE, how to support engine?

[juntjoo]

So I'm about to remove the balance shafts and replace the timing belt and have been reading the vfaq articles on both

Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit Install

&

Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)

to prepare myself but I'm confused on how I should support the engine, particularly for how I will be lowering the engine to make clearance to remove the upper balance shaft. The article on BSE assumes you've made your choice on how to support the engine which suggested by the timing belt replacement article can be done with either the special tool (#C-4852), or just use a jack and some wood.

So I'm wondering from any of you out there who've done this job with the engine inside the car(I won't be taking it out. I looked into that as I've read some of you suggest doing since having the engine out would be very easy, but GETTING it out looks really hard, not to mention putting it back in) how best to support the engine. Would the special tool allow the engine to be lowered enough? I'm worried that one way might not allow the engine to drop low enough, or just be much harder to do so than the alternative.

Anyway, Thanks for your help in advance. I'm about to embark on this journey soon and I need some luck to get it done quickly and successfully as my other car that I'm driving is about to fall apart at any of several broken or quickly wearing parts, and I drive for a living.

You know, I just realized that a jack, of course, would allow the engine to lower as far as you'd like just about, but thinking ahead I would imagine using the special tool from above would take the jack out of underneath the engine under the car giving me more space to work from down there so I think I'd prefer using that tool.

So I guess my revised question to anyone with experience with this out there is if this tool or possibly something else similar allows the engine to be lowered. Thanks again.

 

[4g63tc]

I've always changed the Timing belt with the engine in the car, and I just use a floor Jack, there's really no need to be "under" the car since most of the work is done in the Drivers side wheel well.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I have never used that special tool, the one tine I did a timing belt job in the bay I used a jack with a piece of wood to support the engine. As mentioned, it won't really be in the way.

 

[juntjoo]

I guess my primary concern then should be being able to remove the front balance shaft for the BSE. Either of you or anyone else done that and have a preferred method for supporting and lowering the engine? Thanks for your replies.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I guess my primary concern then should be being able to remove the front balance shaft for the BSE. Either of you or anyone else done that and have a preferred method for supporting and lowering the engine? Thanks for your replies.

Well when I did my BSE I had the engine out. However you will need to remove the crossmember/front motor mount in addition to the driver's side motor mount, and probably the downpipe, to lower the block.

 

[4g63tc]

Well when I did my BSE I had the engine out. However you will need to remove the crossmember/front motor mount in addition to the driver's side motor mount, and probably the downpipe, to lower the block.

^ what he said, I did mine in the car. I'm sure it's infinitely easier out of the vehicle.

I did have the option of using an engine hoist, other than that i did not use any special tools.

 

[SrKegler]

Just a suggestion. Removing the front shaft is going to be difficult with the engine in the car. Another difficulty is installing the back bearing to block off the holes.

Once you do all that, you'll probably experience high oil pressure and will need to port the relief valve.

I simply left the front shaft in. Sure, that leaves me with a few pounds dead weight but it was a good trade off not having to screw with all the other complications.

Cheaper too, instead of having to buy the eliminator kit, all I needed was the stubby shaft for the oil pump.

Guessing here, it's been a while, but I believe the shaft I used was from a Mirage 1.8. $18 from NAPA. Do a search though to be sure I'm correct. Hopefully a wiseman can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[anchew02]

i would just take the engine out, with all the time your gonna be spending trying to get the shaft out and then back in, you could have that motor out in 30 mins if you know how, balance shafts out and kit installed, in about 30 mins, and then put it all back together. thats the route id go.

 

[juntjoo]

Kiddin me? U familiar with all the steps to take it out??

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[92AWDHX40]

Lots easier with the block out of the engine, to pull the shaft out, i wouldnt even try with the engine in but thats me.

 

[juntjoo]

I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm not equipped or experienced yet to take the engine out yet. Maybe if I get desperate working on it in the car. I'll post how it goes once I'm done. Thanks

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[juntjoo]

^ what he said, I did mine in the car. I'm sure it's infinitely easier out of the vehicle.

I did have the option of using an engine hoist, other than that i did not use any special tools.

So wait a minute, I will need a hoist or some special tool to support the engine come to think of it ### using a jack won't be possible ### I'm gonna have to remove the oil pan which is what I now (just got started today) have the jack up against! This stuff is a lot easier reading the instructions on it.

I can't see here in this screen who you are, but person who I quoted, you used a hoist uh? Anyone else use something similar or different or better?

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[92AWDHX40]

I would pull the engine its quite easy a few bolts a hoist, plus you learn, takes a few hours ive done it too many times, hell engine is out now. It will make it so much easier to work on and to get to things to fix,clean and replace thats another reason i pull it, plus i threw a rod bearing.

 

[6damian6]

I wouldnt pull the engine out Ive done a complete bs removal with the engine still in car, hardest part is getting the engine low enough, start removing some cross braces and you'll be good to go.

 

[92AWDHX40]

well you have some choices i would get started and see what works for you, then you will know which route you want to take once you get into it.

 

[SrKegler]

See now why I left the front shaft in. Other than 7# of dead weight, solved a lot of problems.

 

[juntjoo]

I wouldnt pull the engine out Ive done a complete bs removal with the engine still in car, hardest part is getting the engine low enough, start removing some cross braces and you'll be good to go.

Hey 6damian6, or anyone for that matter, how do you remove the oil pan? There are a couple bolts with like no clearance above them between the oil pan itself and the transmission that they sit almost inside of?!?!? Know which ones I"m talking about?

 

[19Eclipse90]

If you've still got the inspection plate in place on the transmission lower bellhousing, removing it will give you a little more room to work. Use a 1/4" drive socket and ratchet with an appropriately sized extension to reach those bolts.

 

[juntjoo]

If you've still got the inspection plate in place on the transmission lower bellhousing, removing it will give you a little more room to work. Use a 1/4" drive socket and ratchet with an appropriately sized extension to reach those bolts.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "inspection plate" but I believe when you say "bellhousing" you're referring to the largest end of the transmission that is directly connected to the engine which would be shown in my attached pic that obviously covers over the bolts, and as far as my eyes could tell the bellhousing goes directly over two of these bolts about halfway over the top of them. I can see being able to wiggle a socket in there to fit the bolts heads but I don't see how I could attach any extension to it. How about maybe one of those mini breaker bars or similarly small but long ratchets??? I was actually looking to get a long skinny ratchet but holy crap at Lowes it was like $60.

19eclipse19, is how my set up is shown in the pic what you're familiar with? Thanks for your help so far.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The big bolt in the middle of your picture that threads into the transmission is one fastening a plate to the bellhousing (yes, the big end of the transmission ). There are a couple that thread into the block as well. See the bolts circled below. Remove those and that plate can be removed. I'm not positive whether there will be 3 or 4 since I only have 3, but it appears that their could be a 4th bolt (2nd from the left).

Long skinny ratchet isn't as necessary. Hold off on buying any tools to see if you can wiggle in a 3/8"-drive ratchet w/ 10mm socket in after removing the inspection plate.

 

[juntjoo]

that skinny little 1mm thick plate you're talking about? that's gonna give me clearance in there? You sure we have the same set up? My pic looks scarier than yours. Thanks again. I'll have to wait til tomorrow to give it a go.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Behind that skinny, 1mm thick plate is the flywheel (or torque converter, whichever might be the case) -- but it isn't immediately behind the plate. There is clearance there that will give you more room.

Picture I provided is of a '90 N/T 4G63. It's pretty similar to a '93 N/T.

 

[juntjoo]

alrighty, thanks. I'll give it a shot within the next couple of days.

 

[Nasty Dream]

You might consider replacing those bolts. They could snap soon. Use PB blaster or WD-40 to help loosen them and give them a better chance. PB blaster would be much better since it is lubricated, while WD-40 removes oil, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't have that much experience with it so maybe I'm being too cautious.

 

[juntjoo]

You might consider replacing those bolts. They could snap soon. Use PB blaster or WD-40 to help loosen them and give them a better chance. PB blaster would be much better since it is lubricated, while WD-40 removes oil, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't have that much experience with it so maybe I'm being too cautious.

I will. Speaking of which, where do you go to replace the various nuts and bolts and fasteners and screws in your car? Auto parts store? dealership? Which is the best place? I've never replaced any of these in a car before, obviously. Thanks

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