difference in 4g63 engines

[vtown661]

I was wondering what the difference was between the first and third engines on this website: http://www.jdm-motor-engines.com/Products.asp?FormName=Search&FormAction=search&category_id=5&name=

As far as I can tell the only difference is that one comes with a turbo and the other one doesn't. If there is more to it than that please let me know (I find it hard to believe that a used stock turbo is worth $1000+ seeing that that is the difference between both engines). Im not going to use the stock turbo so am I better off just getting the $600 4g63 engine without the turbo?

Thanks for your help.

 

[GVR4592]

The third engine is a non-turbo engine. You don't want to use it in a turbo application. They are 6 bolt 4g63 engines so they won't work in a 2g non-turbo car.

 

[vtown661]

So it would be pointless to make the nonturbo engine, turbo? Im planning on port and polishing everything so its as if I have a brand new engine. Im willing to buy new O2 housing and other parts I might need. Should I still get the first one?

 

[GVR4592]

The 420a(engine that is in your car) and the 4g63 are completely different, they aren't interchangeable. If you want to turbo the engine in your car then go to the 2g non-turbo forum.

 

[vtown661]

Yeah I know that.... If you look at the link again the two options I gave are both 4g63 engines. I just want to know the difference between those two. I am well aware that the 4g63 and 420A are very different engines. Thats why Im swapping them.

 

[Bryan90TSiAWD]

the compression ratio is higher on the N/T model.

 

[vtown661]

So is that better if im planning on running a high HP turbo?

 

[ddavisaf]

What are you talking about.... turboing your 420A or swapping in a 4G63?

 

[vtown661]

I thought it was obvious if you looked at the link and read the first post but i guess not. Am asking the difference between the first and third engines from the link. Both are 4g63 engines. So obviously Im planning on doing an engine swap from my current 420A to one of those 4g63 engines. I want to know which one I should buy. I don't want to buy the more expensive one (first engine) if I am just going to end up replacing everything I paid $1000 extra for. Im wondering if I should get the 4g63 N/T engine and make it turbo.

 

[ddavisaf]

Well, there's no point in answering this question because you cannot swap that motor into your car.

The transmission different, the mounts are different, if you swap a transmission also, you'll need to fabricate new mounts... etc...
Expect to pay anyway upwards of 6k for the swap minimum.

 

[MrBoxx]

I think you should do a little more research on what's necessary to swap in ANY 4g63 engine, turbo or no, into a 2g N/T car. Most people will tell you to just stick with the 420A you have now and turbo it later or sell it and buy an already turbocharged car.

 

[vtown661]

Yeah Im aware of all of this. How about someone just answer my question. Im getting a new tranny as well Im also getting new motor mounts. And yes, it IS possible to do the swap. I have talked to many people who have done it.

ddavisaf, If there is no point to answering my question then dont answer.

MrBoxx, If I wanted to sell my car and buy a turbo car then I wouldnt be asking this question. Nor would I have put over $3000 into it already. To sell it now would be a complete waste of my time and money as well as giving up something that I cherish. Cars are my hobby and if I want to take a crappy N/T FWD car and turn it into a drag monster with show looks then that's my choice. I didn't ask for anyones opinion in my post I just need a straight answer. If you can't do that then you shouldn't be replying.

I dont really care about your opinions all I want to know is the difference between the two engines. Now there have been 6 responses and only one has partially answered my question. Bryan90TSiAWD was the only helpful one. So thank you Bryan90TSiAWD and if anyone else wants to help me (key word, HELP) please do. But if you are not going to answer my question then I would rather you simply not post.

If you want to nicely add your two cents in after you answer the question, fine. But that's not what I was asking for.

Thank you.

 

[GVR4592]

I just wasn't sure if you were aware of what you were getting yourself into, thanks for clarifying that you do intend to swap to a 4g63. So the answer to your question is the same as the first post I gave. You do not want to use a non-turbo engine in a turbo application. It has weaker rods, weaker pistons, weaker valves, no oil squirters, and won't handle half the power that a turbo engine will in stock form. You want the first engine.

 

[vtown661]

Awesome. Thank you.

 

[tstkl]

dont buy a non turbo engine, make sure you buy a turbo engine,... the turbo engine was designed for boost, and will be able to handle it a lot better for that reason... the higher compression that the nt motor has will cause more denotation, and will not be better if your running a "high hp turbo"

i think you need to do more research before you start turning your nt into a "drag monster", this is a good start though,...

other differences are probably in the tranny and crank.. and if you are looking to switch to awd youll want to make sure you get an awd trans too, since you need the transfer case output shaft and the front wheels output shaft, along with the center differencial which is in the transmission....

the turbo probably has different cams too, along with a different throttle body, injectors, and numerious other differences....

go with a turbo engine and make it a little easier on yourself...

 

[stirpicult]

the differences i know of are compression ratio, the oil injectors thingamabobs (oil injectors? oil squirters?) under the pistons, and fuel injector size (i double checked and found this... http://www.homemadeturbo.com/www/faq/)

that said, isn't the 2g nt engine mounted on the other side of the engine bay? to a lot of problems. mounts and such, it might be easier to do like an evo viii swap or something. same side. nothing will line up but it might make it easier with what you have. that also might be a totally bad idea.

 

[vtown661]

dont buy a non turbo engine, make sure you buy a turbo engine,... the turbo engine was designed for boost, and will be able to handle it a lot better for that reason... the higher compression that the nt motor has will cause more denotation, and will not be better if your running a "high hp turbo"

i think you need to do more research before you start turning your nt into a "drag monster", this is a good start though,...

other differences are probably in the tranny and crank.. and if you are looking to switch to awd youll want to make sure you get an awd trans too, since you need the transfer case output shaft and the front wheels output shaft, along with the center differencial which is in the transmission....

the turbo probably has different cams too, along with a different throttle body, injectors, and numerious other differences....

go with a turbo engine and make it a little easier on yourself...

Thank you very much for the response. About the tranny. Im planning on getting a new one from TRE or Shep and Ill get it made for an AWD with whatever engine I swap. Another question... If Im swapping FWD to AWD is the Transmission the only thing I have to change or is it in the axels as well. Im confused on what actually is involved in the AWD conversion.

 

[vtown661]

the differences i know of are compression ratio, the oil injectors thingamabobs (oil injectors? oil squirters?) under the pistons, and fuel injector size (i double checked and found this... http://www.homemadeturbo.com/www/faq/)

that said, isn't the 2g nt engine mounted on the other side of the engine bay? to a lot of problems. mounts and such, it might be easier to do like an evo viii swap or something. same side. nothing will line up but it might make it easier with what you have. that also might be a totally bad idea.

Yeah my engine is backwards from the 4g63t but I know alot of people who have done the swap. I hear about it all the time. Ive asked before and I think the general concensous is that the evo engine should not be swapped into a 2G n/t.

 

[gsturboman]

ok, for the two motors, just to clerify, the second one is a n/t, k. for the fwd to awd, the axles need to be awd axels. the awd axels are stronger, hince, all the tires pull at the same time, which means if you do a 4 grand launch with fwd axels, they will snap.break. awd axels are bulit a little tougher for the launches so you will need to get those also. good luck with your project. peace

 

[sportcompactonly]

Whoa you've got a whole mess of bad answers. I have both engines, and I have turbo'd an n/t 4g63 so let me clarify. The n/t and turbo 4g63 actually aren't as different as people are telling you. The longblocks are identical other than the pistons, cams and oil pan. The crank, rods, block and head are identical. The n/t doesn't have the hole drilled and tapped for the knock sensor in the head. The n/t doesn't have the oil squirter holes drilled and tapped either, there are dimples where they go, they just weren't ever drilled and tapped at the factory. The oil squirters were designed to cool the stock pistons by spraying oil on the backs of the pistons. Aftermarket pistons are designed to work without this and dont need the oil spayed on them directly to keep cool. Also with high horsepower applications the oil squirters have been found in the bottoms of oil pans, then your oil pressure drops and things get ugly, a lot of guys just cap holes were the oil squiters go. In my opinion, the n/t engines make great turbo engines (if you plan on running aftermarket pistons) because they're cheap, available and usually haven't seen the kind of abuse the turbo engines have.

Don't get mad when people tell you this project isn't worth it, just realize that most of these guys aren't beginners and they've been there before. The 4g63t conversion in a 420a car is difficult and after its done it usually costs quite a bit more than a 4g63t car would have cost, not including all the time that you've spent. Now you talking about making the car awd, most solid 97-99 gsx's sell for around $12k. I highly doubt your project will be less than that or even near that, and you won't have the comfort of knowing that everything was done properly at the factory. I suggest doing some serious research before you start. Just based upon the questions you have asked in this forum, you have a lot and I mean a lot of learning to do.

 

[eclipseturbogst]

Last time I checked it costed 17K to make a FWD car into a AWD.

 

[vtown661]

Yeah i dont know about that one...

 

[GVR4592]

I was wrong about the rods and valves being weaker.

 

[bojanglesracing]

just hope every thing works out for you

 

[tstkl]

i doubt the rods are the same,... one engine makes 195 hp and one makes 138hp... the nt engine should use lighter, weaker rods since its making less power....