Creating Guides for AutoX classes, need your help

[jtmcinder]

In my case would the Evo 9 bypass valve keep me in the STX class as it technically is an OEM piece, just not on the 2g DSM. On the allowed mods listed, I took it as I could have and intake, just nothing after market after the turbo, which would not allow for the EVO 9 bypass valve or SMIC hardpipes.

If it's EXACTLY the same piece, then it isn't (just) an Evo 9 CBV, it's a 2G DSM CBV, so of course it is legal. If it isn't EXACTLY the same piece, then it isn't legal in STX because ST* has no allowances for changes to anything related to boost. (At least, that was true last time I checked.)

And whether it is an OEM piece is totally irrelevant. The question is whether it is the OE piece or there's an allowance for a change. (OEM = original equip manufacturer; OE = original equip) In general, people really need to learn the difference between OEM and OE.

 

[everbruin]

stx doesn't allow any change to stock cbv

 

[zachakagoat]

stx doesn't allow any change to stock cbv

Visible change ......

 

[jtmcinder]

Visible change ......

You are, to be technical, slime.

Or you have a terrible sense of humor (and that's a lot coming from me).

Pick one.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Can the stock fuel pump be rewired to run STX?

 

[jtmcinder]

I don't see any allowance for that in the ST or Stock rules, so I'd say No.

 

[ileagleracing]

When it comes to SCCA rules: if it doesn't say that you can, then you can't.

That also includes doing something not legal to accomplish a legal modification.

For example: you can use any anti-roll bar you want in STX, but you can't make any modifications to any other part of the car in order in install it (unless that modification is specifically allowed).

SM however does have the following caveat: "Any minor modification, intended to allow or facilitate any allowed modification, is permitted as long as it does not provide any instrinic performance benefit in and of itself, does not proviede a weight reduction of more than 1 lb, and is not explicitly prohibited elsewhere withing these rules...."

Samuel Krauss
Omnis Axis Proturbo
08 Expedition (TSP)
04 S4 (STU)
98 Talon (SMish)
95 Talon (STX)

 

[jtmcinder]

For completeness' sake, as well as amusement, the SM rule that Sam just quoted is known as the "no weenies rule."

 

[ileagleracing]

I thought that was to keep the dudes out of SML?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

I installed a high flow cat (band clamps are awesome), and have an o2 housing on the way. The 2g bypass can get swapped later as it takes 2 minutes. I also picked up a tactrix cable for the ECU. Thanks for the responses. I hope others can use my questions for reference as the rules can be really confusing.

Would you recommend attending one of the SCCA starting line schools for a beginner?

Also, am I safe to assume that a vacuum reduction is not allowed in STX because it modifies the intake after the turbo, removes weight, and interferes with normal operation of OE equipment?

 

[jtmcinder]

Also, am I safe to assume that a vacuum reduction is not allowed in STX because it modifies the intake after the turbo, removes weight, and interferes with normal operation of OE equipment?

Do you see an allowance for it? No? Then it isn't allowed.

 

[ileagleracing]

Would you recommend attending one of the SCCA starting line schools for a beginner?

Those are new this year, from the web site it sounds like an EVO school (probably phase 1) + a bunch of extra swag.

If you aren't an SCCA member already, then I would say it's definitely worth it.
If you already are, it's still a good deal, but if your local club puts on a "Rookie School" type event, I'd do that first.

 

[hypergenesis]

In Street Touring you can run a tubular o2 housing, it just need to be recirculated. Keep in mind it will need to be an internal wastegate though, unless you want to go to Street Modified.

So quick question if I swap a 6 bolt into a 2g would that make me in the Street prepared class or Street modified then, assuming all other mods are within boundaries?

 

[snowborder714]

Street Modified.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Those are new this year, from the web site it sounds like an EVO school (probably phase 1) + a bunch of extra swag.

If you aren't an SCCA member already, then I would say it's definitely worth it.
If you already are, it's still a good deal, but if your local club puts on a "Rookie School" type event, I'd do that first.

I joined SCCA last month. I looked at the EVO school since there was one really close to me and I did not see any "Rookie Schools" posted as of yet in my region.

 

[jtmcinder]

Not sure why Snowy said that a 6-bolt in a 2G forces you to SM. SP allows for complete engine swaps between cars on the same line and all DSMs, from 89-99, are on the same line. Now, if the motor mounts and/or tranny doesn't line up, then it isn't possible for that reason (which could well be true and might be what Snowy was saying), but merely swapping the motor doesn't boot you from SP.

 

[snowborder714]

I was going off of Nate's post earlier in this thread.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/roa...tox-classes-need-your-help.html#post153136484

If that's wrong, we should change it.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

That is what I had been told as well. Indeed as Brian said, if it is incorrect we will change it in the guide.

 

[snowborder714]

I see this note under the "Authorized Modifications" section of SP:

Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if:
(a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken, and
(b) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A, Street Prepared Classes.

But under the "Engine and Drivetrain" section, I see no mention of using a different engine. Just that you can bore the cylinders and mill the head.


Under the "Allowed Modifications" section of SM, I see this:

Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular model (e.g., Eagle Talon, available originally with
either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.

 

[jtmcinder]

Update/backdate is a completely different allowance from all the specific allowances. It's mentioned at the beginning and then not mentioned again. Update/backdate is what allows you to swap parts from other cars on the same line, as long as it can be swapped without changing anything else. So, as long as the motor mounts are in the same place and the new engine will bolt right up to the old tranny, etc, etc, you can swap the engine. Last time I checked, the turbo was considered part of the engine, so you had to swap it, too, but that may have changed, now that SP allows for altered boost.

ACM will know all this for sure. Just wait for him to show up. But, for now, I believe that the guide is incorrect. Not all motor-swaps are illegal in SP.

 

[ACM]

You cannot update/backdate between 1G and 2G motors because of the driver-side motor mount.

The engine mount rules specifically state there can be no dimensional changes in alternate mounts, so since the mounting surface for that mount is both in a different position and at a different angle, there is no way to get a stock 2G mount to attach to a 1G motor without some assistance.

I had some "enthusiastic" discussions with members of the SPAC over this clarification. The original intent of the engine mount rule was specifically to allow UD/BDs of this very nature, just like the 1G-2G engine swap, and I have the email from the then-SPAC chair to prove it.

This is strictly a Street Prepared perspective, it pertains to no other class, I do not follow Stock, ST* or SM rules (though I do know of course that engine mounts are irrelevant in SM).

 

[ileagleracing]

C'mon Charles upload an avatar already, people want to see that beautiful beast!

 

[ACM]

Which one d'you think - on fire at Nationals or on fire at Devens ?

 

[ileagleracing]

There weren't any cameras around at Devens.

 

[ACM]

There's always cameras around Sam

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