Coilover or Shocks/Springs Camber Question

[mnetwork]

I'm about to buy coilovers or shocks/springs and I'm stuck on one issue.. If I am correct.. If I get shocks/springs and lower my car an inch and change isn't my camber going to be off causing uneven tire wear and less tire on the ground?

My friends are all telling me to get shocks and springs because they all have it for their VW's.. they are all saying that all you need is a very good alignment afterwards. Is this true at all?

I'm stuck because I do want coilovers, just because they are better over all.. and because the Tein Flexs come with the pillowball upper mount which will give me camber adjustment...

 

[snowborder714]

I would suggest coilovers (but that's because I have the Tein Flex and love them!).

Yes, after you install either, you alignment will be off. Right after I installed mine, the first place I drove was to get an alignment. This should be the first thing you do no matter what. Either that, or you'll be buying new tires pretty soon.

As for the Tein Flex coilovers - they do come with the pillowball upper mount, but on our cars they do nothing to adjust camber.

 

[mnetwork]

What?? I thought that was the whole point of the pillowball mounts...

I know you need an alignment after the shocks and springs or anything with the suspension.. but if I drop my car say 1.2" in both the front and rear.. will an alignment compensate??

 

[cruisintalonawd]

yes and with the coilovers, depending on how much you lower your ride, then you might have to buy a camber kit

 

[mnetwork]

What is the limit drop at which you need a camber kit for shocks/springs??

 

[snowborder714]

What?? I thought that was the whole point of the pillowball mounts...

A lot of other cars work this way, but DSM's don't (at least 2G's...not 100% positive about 1G's).

 

[absolute_DSM]

What?? I thought that was the whole point of the pillowball mounts...

The 2g Eclipse suspension is a short arm - long arm type. The spindle is connected at points on the upper arm and lower arm by ball joints (hence the term "upper and lower ball joints")

The shock and spring combination (the strut) are connected from the shock tower to the lower arm. The wheel bearing is not part of the spring/shock component.

Since the wheel bearing is bolted to the spindle, the angle of the spindle is the only way the camber can be changed. If you change the angle of the shock/spring, you arent changing anything that has to do with alignment.

EDIT - 1gs are able to use pillow mounts because there is no upper ball joint, there is only a lower arm and the spring/shock connected at the top.

EDIT again, youll notice in the pics (I pulled them from the gallery, I hope that is ok) that at the bottom of the 1g spring/shock assembly is the wheel bearing and spindle. So adjusting the spring/shock will adjust the spindle/wheel bearing which changes camber.

 

[mnetwork]

The 2g Eclipse suspension is a short arm - long arm type. The spindle is connected at points on the upper arm and lower arm by ball joints (hence the term "upper and lower ball joints")

The shock and spring combination (the strut) are connected from the shock tower to the lower arm. The wheel bearing is not part of the spring/shock component.

Since the wheel bearing is bolted to the spindle, the angle of the spindle is the only way the camber can be changed. If you change the angle of the shock/spring, you arent changing anything that has to do with alignment.

EDIT - 1gs are able to use pillow mounts because there is no upper ball joint, there is only a lower arm and the spring/shock connected at the top.

Ohh.. I get it. What about using shocks/springs.. would alignment be able to compensate for a 1.2" drop?

 

[absolute_DSM]

Ohh.. I get it. What about using shocks/springs.. would alignment be able to compensate for a 1.2" drop?

Shocks/springs or coilovers, a 1.2" drop is a 1.2" drop.

The reason you need a camber kit is because lowering the car in the first place will change the geometry of the suspension so much, OEM adjustments are already to the limit of their range. Putting in a camber kit will allow you get more range.

From what Ive read the front should be ok without a camber kit. For the rears you can put washers in behind the upper control arm with longer bolts to move that upper control arm out, giving more positive camber. (same thing a commercial camber kit will essentially do.) If you search for "DIY camber" I believe there are a few threads on it, maybe even an article.

If you do, just remember to use grade 10.9 bolts or greater. They have a lot of stress up there!

 

[97 4G63]

It dosen't matter what kinda of drop you get if you mess whit the stock suspension you need a camber kit thats all there is to it...

 

[snowborder714]

It dosen't matter what kinda of drop you get if you mess whit the stock suspension you need a camber kit thats all there is to it...

I have the Tein Flex coilovers installed (adjusted to Tein's recommended specs) with no camber kit and had no problem getting everything aligned.

 

[mnetwork]

Anyone else have input on this??

 

[dsmdegier]

I have Tokico Struts and H&R Springs and i need to get a camber kit... it depends on how much you drop your car and how far off your camber is... i had a cavalier before my dsm and i dropped that and i didnt need to get a camber kit because it wasnt off that much... with a 1.2" drop you would probably want to get a camber kit becuse if you get springs it will probably end up being lower than the 1.2" that it says and with coilovers you never really know exactly how much you lower your car unless you measure your height before you put them in and then keep adjusting them and measuring until you get exactly what you want for a drop.

 

[oldman420]

I have kyb AGX W/ megan springs 2" front and 1.94" back and no camber kit required. Brought it in to my dealership where i work, gave the alignment guy a case of beer and i don't see any weird wear in my tires, and he said the alignment looked good for such a substancial drop so i think you'll be alright, no camber kit.

 

[SwitchSkier]

It really just depends on the car and suspension setup. I have the Illumina/Pro-Kit setup and what I did was first put it all one the car without a camber kit. Then go to Firestone and buy a lifetime allignment for about $130. Then see how far off your adjustments are off, and that will tell you what kind/if you need a camber kit. Then buy/install the kit you need and take it back to get it alligned again. It turned out I needed adjustment on all 4 wheels, unlike others Ive heard with this setup. But my car seems to have had a mysterious past and has a lot of weird quirks. I haven't been driving it so I haven't gotten what I need yet and forgot how far off it was, but I'll be doing that soon.

 

[mnetwork]

Anyone else have the Illumina/Pro-Kit setup?

 

[mnetwork]

I just picked up some Pro-Kits last night for 100 bucks shipped.. So, it looks like I'll be going with the Pro-Kit/Tokico setup.. Will I be able to reuse the upper strut mounts for the new struts and springs.. Is this a good idea?