Coil On Plug [Merged 5-7]

[HybridAWD]

Originally posted by Kingdom
anybody try ls1 coils?

yes

 

[rdrkt]

What is wrong with the stock ignition? If my car isnt fast enough take a look at HighPsi91. We both run stock ignition and both make some power.

 

[MNGSX]

I'm not sure if the BR kit uses CDI.

But with the AEM kit you gain CDI which is a gain even with stock coils.

The "pencil" type coils in the AEM are about the most efficient ignition coils around. The coil windings them selves actual spriral down towards the plug as opposed to sitting atop the valve cover.

Not only does it gain voltage but energy as well. Voltage is only part of the electronic equation. The amperage available is important too.

 

[Kingdom]

DSMjim, make sure you take alot of pics and post some pics of the install.

 

[slowAWDTSi]

I got the set of COP from the 300m to work on my 90 talon, but the only problems are that it misfires a little at idle and whenever it sees like 2 lbs of boost if spits & sputters, but without boost its like a new car.
I wired itcolpletly diffrent from the way the other guys were doing it, I had a spare transistor pack lying around and i wired up dual transistor packs, It got me 7 miles to my house and it only screwed up when one of the coils came loose and came up out of the spark plug hole (doh!) , luckly that happen on my street that i live on. so anyways im prolly gonna try to wire it up with one transistor pack and see if that helps or hurts.

Dru

 

[Kingdom]

Originally posted by HybridAWD
yes

would you car to share knowledge?

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by Kingdom
DSMjim, make sure you take alot of pics and post some pics of the install.

Yeah dont worry about that. My car is a project car for HCI (Hot Compacts & Imports Magazine) so it will be featured there. The Magnus Manifold tech piece I did a month or so ago is going to be in the next HCI (should be out now) and my AEM parts install should be after that. Next on the list is the full details on the tuning aspect of the AEM EMS, CDI and WBO2 in a speed desnsity format. I will be using the Coil on plug setup as well, hopefully that will make it in for the story. Then after that is some other goodies which I can't talk about just yet... Everything I do however will be posted as a tech piece here on DSM tuners, so you can look out for that. I'll be doing lots of cool stuff this summer so everybody should see 6-8 good tech pieces from me before the end of the year. Should be pretty fun.. I have a feeling one of those pieces will be a 6 bolt swap when my 7 bolt bites the dust. Wonder just how far it can go?

My buddy is a Technical Editor for HCI magazine (Sean Greene, use to be the Editor at Modified before David Pankew took over) so I get the hook ups though that..

 

[4g63eclipseman]

dsmjim ou lucky basterd

 

[97EclipseGSX]

Originally posted by Kingdom
would you car to share knowledge?

He found some off of a better application. But good luck finding them haha.

I tried some off of a duratec v-6 today. They seem to be fine but I haven't taken it for a spin yet.

When the MSD isn't hooked up the car doesn't back fire or anything. With the 300m coils the car will back fire. Not sure if that means the motorcraft coils are weaker or if it means they are stonger and require a lot more power to fire. I wish I had a dyno available. But anywho still no luck for you non upgraded ignition guys.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by MNGSX
I'm not sure if the BR kit uses CDI.

BR still uses the standard ignition with their system, although you should be able to install any CDI ignition you want with it.

Originally posted by MNGSX
The "pencil" type coils in the AEM are about the most efficient ignition coils around. The coil windings them selves actual spriral down towards the plug as opposed to sitting atop the valve cover.

Actually the motorcycle coils are about the crappiest I have tested lately. But when used in conjunction with a CDI ignition, thei coils weaknesses aren't much of an issue. The CDI will cover for their weak energy storage mostly. But you could still get a coil that was matched for CDI that would result in a higher maximum potential output voltage, which will help under extreme boost/ high plug gap situations.

Brad

 

[brads]

Originally posted by 4g63eclipseman
hey dsmjim what site did you get that pic from? were can you buy it at? and FYI coil on plug offers a MAjoR advatage especially if you are running high boost or nos.. or both. not only that you get up 40,000v per plug

What does COP have to do with maximum voltage output per plug? And if you get up to 40,000V per plug with COP, what do you get without COP?

 

[anomalyinva]

Originally posted by rdrkt
What is wrong with the stock ignition? If my car isnt fast enough take a look at HighPsi91. We both run stock ignition and both make some power.

For that matter, whats wrong with a totally stock car? They make decent power, and are great transporation. Some people want to do something a bit different. That is why.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by anomalyinva
For that matter, whats wrong with a totally stock car? They make decent power, and are great transporation. Some people want to do something a bit different. That is why.

But many of these ignition upgrades people do are in reality either downgrades, or no improvements at all. And for most cars here, spending hundreds of dollars to improve the spark energy on a car that doesn't need it, makes as much sense as running $10/gal race gas in your lawn mower, when it runs just as good on the lowest grade pump gas you can get.

And if you think a totally stock DSM makes decent power....

Brad

 

[EVT_Chris]

Ok, here's a stupid question...which piece of the system are those wires running from....I don't recognize them on a 1g system.

-Chris

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Buschur has been using MSD2s with their COP ignition for a long time. I do not know if he would advise using their setup without one. However, now Switzer has been using the AEM CDI in place of the MSD because he likes it better.

 

[BoostinAWD]

My 2g has the extreme coil setup.
Its not on plug.

Works extremely well with my dsmlink. It came on the car so don't ask me why I paid $500 for it.

 

[97EclipseGSX]

just take the harness off of the coil and go from there


I think I like the motorcraft coils better.

 

[90DSMTurboFWD]

I think someone who has gotten this to work should share with everyone else the way to do it and correctly wire everything, and the specific parts needed (year and model car te coil packs are from) I am sure I am notthe only one dieing to try this...
Pictures of the processes and wiring would really help as well

 

[MNGSX]

Originally posted by brads

Actually the motorcycle coils are about the crappiest I have tested lately. But when used in conjunction with a CDI ignition, thei coils weaknesses aren't much of an issue. The CDI will cover for their weak energy storage mostly. But you could still get a coil that was matched for CDI that would result in a higher maximum potential output voltage, which will help under extreme boost/ high plug gap situations.

Brad

I was thinking about what I saw from mitsubishi. They have their own automotive electronic component resale division. They say their pencil style coils are their most potent offering. I guess bike coils are different.

http://www.meaa-mea.com/products/p_ignition.asp

 

[brads]

Originally posted by MNGSX
I was thinking about what I saw from mitsubishi. They have their own automotive electronic component resale division. They say their pencil style coils are their most potent offering. I guess bike coils are different.

But the coils that people were trying to sell as kits for the DSM conversion are the bike coils, not these mitsu coils.
I have the spec sheets on these other mitsu coils at work, they were nothing particularly impressive, I think the stock DSM coils were still stronger, IIRC.

Brad

 

[MNGSX]

I'm back to OE coils with magnacores and NGK's right now...

I'd be interested in what are the best COP coils.

 

[4g63eclipseman]

i think buscher set is really nice and clean not only that its been proven in competion time and time again. Also you can use it wit your stock ecu.. and or conjuction with the aem CDI/stock ecu..

 

[97EclipseGSX]

Originally posted by 90DSMTurboFWD
I think someone who has gotten this to work should share with everyone else the way to do it and correctly wire everything, and the specific parts needed (year and model car te coil packs are from) I am sure I am notthe only one dieing to try this...
Pictures of the processes and wiring would really help as well

Whats wrong with the image above??

You can get any set of coils you want, just make sure you get the harnesses with them so wiring is easy. There isn't much else to show.

An MSD or some sort of ignition box is necessary to fire them cause the stock ignition isn't strong enough. I've been trying different companies coils to see if I can find one that will work with out an upgraded ignition but I doubt it will ever be found. Theres just to much more juice required to fire 4 coils as opposed to two.

 

[markgholland]

So, let me get this straight and try to conclude, this COP ignition system will work on our cars with the use of an MSD or someother type of ignition system? So, it's not a direct, "unplug the coil and run the wires." Also, is it safe to conclude that any coil, whether it's from a 300m or an Intrepid, will work as long as it's wired as above and used with a MSD?

Also, did anyone ever find out what type of coils Buschur uses in their COP? I may have missed it in the thread somewhere...

How is this going to differ on a 90 model?

~Mark

 

[HybridAWD]

Ok let me try and break this down a little bit more for everyone


Think about our stock coils, now ask yourself how many there are. If you answered 2 you are right.

Now ask yourself if our cars have a wastespark or not. If you answered yes you are right again.

Now ask yourself which coil fires which cyl., you have to know this to even make them work

Now ask yourself how many coils you are putting on using the COP setup. If you answered 4 you most likely passed the 1st grade.

** Example, not actually numbers **
OK say our stock ignition output is 40,00volts. Now keep in mind on how many coils you have on the stock ignition. Since one coil fires 2 cyl. that would make so to say 20,000volts per cyl.
Now add the COP you made, still with the stock 40,000 volts your sending it to2 coils, this would break it up to 20,000 volts per coil.
The chrysler coils go from 12 volts up to 40,000 volts.

The coils need a really good voltage to "fire" reason being that the MSD DIS-2 works very well.

The Coils tested will create the biggest and strongest part at higher voltage. DUH so think about not using the DIS-2 trying to run your car.... it will just crap out.


Simplified Version For The Smarter People:

Having gone from 2 coils to 4 coils drops the voltage spike the coils will see. On our stock ignition, each coil could see lets say 40,000volts each. The coil would split that 40,000 volts up and send it through the wires.
Whereas running 4 individual coils, that puts more of a "strain" on them to try and create a stronger spark. The stock ignition system in our cars like 2 coils, but freaks out trying to put out enough power for 4.


For anyone who i just confused more, just buy a DIS-2