Coil On Plug [Merged 5-7]

[TT_NS]

I plan on making 500hp and 575hp with nitrous

 

[1fast97gsx]

I plan on making 500hp and 575hp with nitrous

It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge and money to make that kind of power ... if you had either one then why are you asking a silly question such as this?

 

[TT_NS]

It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge and money to make that kind of power ... if you had either one then why are you asking a silly question such as this?

Hey all i wanted was a answer to my **** question. I have done my home work on all the parts for this car. I have already put 5k into it a plan on putting 7k more. the only thing i have not decided on is the ignition system. now if you dont know how to answer my **** question then dont give me some BS response.

 

[DSMJim]

You will be ok with a DIS2 at that power level. You need not goto coil on plug for that power. The stock DSM ignition is more than capable of handeling that with a simple ignition amplifier. The DIS2 will also give you a two step which will help with your 60ft times.

 

[TT_NS]

aight thanks man

 

[MitzMadness]

What can you guys tell me of coil on plug setups? What kind of performance benefits do they yield and are they worth the cost?

 

[dave99gst]

they are a 'look at what i got' mod
dsm's stock spark system is more then you will ever need.
Its basicly bling-bling. If ya got the money to blow then go for it.

 

[Defiant]

^ ^ ^ Agreed. Expensive, tidy, unnecessary. A pretty wire valley cover is lots cheaper and can be just as flash.

DSM ignitions are not weak points of the package.

 

[felipe]

i got 10mm magnacor spark plug wiers and denzo spark plugs

 

[felipe]

I Have A ? About My @g Dsm

 

[Maglin]

wow... This threed is back from the dead.

 

[Defiant]

Bang.

 

[92Talon251]

I have heard good things about both forms of ignition. I did a search it seems that MSD is a bit cheaper than Coil On Plug. But I cant find anything saying which is better. I have read info on MSD, saying that it puts out a hotter spark and when it come time to produce a spark it shoots a spark 7 times rather than 1 for a complete and hot burn it also has been known to smooth out bad idles. The one thing I cant seem time find is does Coil Over Plug do the same, I have read info saying that it puts out a hotter spark but does it shoot 7 sparks rather than 1? If so which is better ??

 

[mitsuspeed]

looking at your mods list id say your $$ would be better spent elsewhere, the stock igntion system is pretty good for awhile on these cars.

 

[92Talon251]

I know I am good up to 400 Hp on the stock Coils. There is a local DSM guy around here selling a used MSD for $100. It is alot cheaper than new, but really looking for info on which is better?

 

[psychlow]

You can run an MSD DIS-2 programmable ignition system with a COP setup (in fact, Shep does this with the Buschur system).

 

[99gst_racer]

I know I am good up to 400 Hp on the stock Coils. There is a local DSM guy around here selling a used MSD for $100. It is alot cheaper than new, but really looking for info on which is better?

A used MSD what for $100???? MSD doesnt make a coil for our cars. Our stock coil was built strong and usually works well up until the 400 HP range. At that point you would want COP. And then you could replace your ignition box with an MSD DIS-2. I guess I dont understand your question. Are you trying to ask which set-up is better:

1. MSD Ignition box using the stock coil

-OR-

2. Stock ignition box using COP set-up

Is that what you're asking?? If so, you would probably benifit more from replacing your ignition box with an MSD one rather than replacing your factory coil. Also, the MSD box will probably cost much less than the COP set-up. Or, if you had the money, you could do what Psychlow said and get both.

 

[Shadowfax]

actually there are a good many coils that can be used on the cars especially if you have an MSD - the issue lies with frying the power transistor (which may or may not happen without an MSD) - however if you look back to Len Alaya's 10 second neon from a couple years ago, he was running Accel Motorcycle coils- can't remember the part numbers- look it up on 3si.org

I've personally ran the motorcycle coils, the (edit- they aren't LS1- they are GM, can't remember if they are 3.8L) coils, and the GN single 6 coil pack. Granted it was on the 3/S, however the specs are all quite similar (if not the same).

Not saying they helped, nor that you should do it, however there are always options.

The MSD stands for multiple spark discharge- it's why the system fires so many times below 3000RPM, and then it does produce a better, longer spark over 3000RPM. Your coil on plug is simply negating the plug wires- it doesn't change stock ignition characteristics.

The MSD also has the ability to retard timing based on RPM's, and has a two step rev limiter- which I've seen make 4-7psi on the line with the clutch pushed in. Also it has an integrated kill switch.

I've also seen the MSD cause abberant shorts, shock the piss outta guys, and solve problems as well as make them.

Basically, the stock setup is good until you start to have issues with it.

 

[92Talon251]

A used MSD what for $100???? MSD doesnt make a coil for our cars. Our stock coil was built strong and usually works well up until the 400 HP range. At that point you would want COP. And then you could replace your ignition box with an MSD DIS-2. I guess I dont understand your question. Are you trying to ask which set-up is better:

1. MSD Ignition box using the stock coil

-OR-

2. Stock ignition box using COP set-up

Is that what you're asking?? If so, you would probably benifit more from replacing your ignition box with an MSD one rather than replacing your factory coil. Also, the MSD box will probably cost much less than the COP set-up. Or, if you had the money, you could do what Psychlow said and get both.

Thats exactly what I am trying to ask. Which setup is better COP or MSD ignition box using the stock coils. Also from what I hear that when using a MSD box it causes the spark plug to fire 7 times vs one using the stock ignition box. Does this hold true with the COP setup or does it change since it just uses the stock ignition box?

 

[99gst_racer]

coil on plug is simply negating the plug wires- it doesn't change stock ignition characteristics.

I beg to differ. There are changes; they are simply small changes.
"The COP sets work great, you notice cleaner starts, smoother idle, better throttle response.
As far as HP gains there are none from the COP setups by them selves, the COP setup will however allow you to run higher boost without spark blowout and also runs a hotter spark allowing for a larger plug gap."
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159212&highlight=ebay

Basically, the stock setup is good until you start to have issues with it.

^^^ I definatily agree with that. ^^^
With the DSM ignition, I wouldnt replace anything until it fails.

 

[99gst_racer]

Thats exactly what I am trying to ask. Which setup is better COP or MSD ignition box using the stock coils. Also from what I hear that when using a MSD box it causes the spark plug to fire 7 times vs one using the stock ignition box. Does this hold true with the COP setup or does it change since it just uses the stock ignition box?

To answer your question, NO, you will not get 7 times more spark using the OEM ignition box with COP.

 

[Shadowfax]

I beg to differ. There are changes; they are simply small changes.
"The COP sets work great, you notice cleaner starts, smoother idle, better throttle response.
As far as HP gains there are none from the COP setups by them selves, the COP setup will however allow you to run higher boost without spark blowout and also runs a hotter spark allowing for a larger plug gap."
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159212&highlight=ebay

It would take some pretty serious numbers shown for me to believe that- it could be, wires cause a loss, always do, having the coil right on the plug eliminates that- if they are using more powerful coils, then that would also account for the gains- but then it begs the question- what if you mounted those same coils remotely, then ran wires to the plugs- would the gains still be there?

Not saying COP is useless, it's not, but again, I've see those same ads for virtually all coil upgrades on all makes/models/cars.

the MSD changes how the ignition behaves, not the spark - a spark is mostly modified by the coil, the wire, the plug. When, how long, how often the spark happens is done by the box. If your issue is with plugs, wires or coils- then yes, change them, but if all that is basically sound, you might want to toy with the BOX, you can always run COP WITH the MSD later if you find even more gains (which again, depending on the coil there should be some gains)

it's not a big deal, but having ran accel, msd and other coils on my 3/S, I'm back to stock, it's not a big gain. The msd DIS though, I wish I still had. The Laser on the other hand, might get an MSD, it won't get coils.

 

[92Talon251]

Thanks guys got some great much needed info. When it comes time to change out the ignition I think I will use the MSD setup over the COP. The COP is a nice setup and if I want a better response I will go with COP on top of the MSD. I think that a MSD along with NGK wires will be good enough when it comes time.

 

[JiveMasterT]

I've looked all over the place and i cant seem to figure out what the advantage to a coil on plug setup is. what circumstances would require it? thanks.

 

[heavyD]

Put it this way. The spark travels from the coil (A) though the plug wire (B) to the plug (C). Eliminating (B) means the spark goes from (A) directly to (C). Many industrial natural gas engines have been using coil on plug for years as you are eliminating a possible weak link in the ignition system. Wires break down and degrade over time. Eliminate the wires and that is one less problem to deal with down the road.