Cheapest tuning system?

[Arthris]

Evo ecu can be flashed with a ebay vag com cable that's like 15 bucks shipped. The ecu is what 200? Then patch harness. Can be done but more of a pain. Either a burner or a ostrich is the way to go. There is a Swedish guy who has posted here on what he has done with the 1g ecu and its very amazing. True pressure based maps full control of fuel and timing. No lift to shift stutter box rotational idle warm up protection and many more features for the amazing price of free. I can care less what ppl have to say about link. I've used it and it is garbage utterly garbage.

 

[donniekak]

Ok, link isn't the cheapest but from personnal experience, a burned chip didn't worked well for me. My car never ran great with a keydiver chip, it always stalled on decel and bogged when I was snapping throttle to WOT from idle. So, I bought link and my car ran way better just at first startup but it's just my experience.

That's why you have to log what's going on, and burn several chips to zero in on a good tune. Buying chips off the internet, with tunes already loaded, isn't the same thing as tuning your own car by burning chips.

 

[Nuzzi]

Im currently looking into cost effective tuning options myself, also a 1g so maybe this will help. An safc makes adjustments from your base tune correct? A custom burned chip and used safc2 are cheap, so couldn't you burn a chip with a good base tune for whatever your setup is and then use a safc to fine tune on the fly from there? (as long as you have a w/b) For instance burn the chip with 750cc and 2g maf etc and then do your tuning from there. Im not sure how well it works but safc2 also has a decel function to allow you to vent to atmosphere even with a maf out in front. Please let me know if im completely wrong, this is just theory ive come up with from reading.

 

[airmail96]

Or you could buy an ostritch, and a cable and use http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/450153-basics-tunerpro-how.html or you could pay 20 dollars and use Jackal. Both programs give you logging capabilities, jackal requires you to go SD though so youd have to invest in an IAT sensor, getting a bung welded to your piping and a map sensor.

 

[Nuzzi]

well after doing some more research I have to agree that the safc isn't the best option. The ostrich tuner with jackal looks pretty good and I think that's what ill be going with. Link is good too if you need maf support.

 

[Arthris]

Ostrich can do maf easier than link can. There is support. But not here. This.forums.is based around link and it seems anything else is voodoo magic or something

 

[ZIFU]

Go for GM MAF and MAFT, cheap, easy and atmosferic bov xD
U need afr wideband ...

 

[hotrodssnova]

If you can't change or modify timing, you are wasting your time. The ostrich is hands down the cheapest route. What you choose to load onto is up to you. There's been major advancement in the coding since the early days. You can even tune off a smartphone if you do some research. Pressure based bins do away with the maf code and clean up all the calculations needed. This frees up ecu power to do quicker math and gives more control over fuel and timing. Tuner pro and ostrich gets my vote.

 

[4Lurker4]

Surprised no one has mentioned Blackbox ECU's.

pick up a used BB ECU and a TacTrix cable..download ECUFlash and there you go..steeper curve than DSMLink though

He's got a 1g, if he were to go that route, evo 8 ecu is better than the stock 2g bb; more options and more people use it so it's easier to get answers from people. Mentioned it earlier.

 

[curt-s]

This frees up ecu power to do quicker math and gives more control over fuel and timing.

The software developer side in me would love to see benchmarks and provable gains to this statement.

 

[CrackedDSM]

The software developer side in me would love to see benchmarks and provable gains to this statement.

Talk to username basshead(aka Kaxlon/Kim H/etc) on these forums then.




Answer to OP's question the /cheapest/ would probably be just a MAF-T or SAFC.


However the most cost effective tuning solution that still retains a full function of features like pressure indexed SD maps, SD code not based on MAF code, anti-lag, NLTS, stutterbox, coil dwell, and on and on and on would be hands down the Ostrich. Using an Ostrich w/ TunerPro and using basshead's "SweDensity" maps will be more than 99% of this forum would ever need. If you needed something it didn't have you'd be looking at standalone EMS systems like AEM EMS/MegaSquirt/Haltech/etc. I really do believe if people on this forum were to use SweDensity they would flip out at just how precise of controls are it offers. Kim has gotten it down to where you can adjust AFR and injector pulse down to the very limits of the ECU's hardware and what it can physically handle. Not what the chip or software can handle but what the ECU can physically control. That's just one thing as well. Basshead is a straight DSM ECU bad-ass.



ECMLink is a great product, no one's bashing it. It's got a dedicated forum with active developer support, plus thousands of well seasoned veterans. But at $545 for the chip alone, plus $55 for a socket job(or $160+ for an already socketed ECU), it's a little steep. I've used both religiously. I like ECMLink a whole lot...but I love the Ostrich. You can't beat real time tuning. Changing "direct access" features with the engine on, and as soon as you hit upload the changes take effect immediately. No engine off, key on and waiting for it to flash. Plus the Ostrich is portable. Unplug it, take it with you(it's the size of a pager/beeper or credit card) and the car isn't going anywhere unless it's flat-bedded out. Not to mention with it being portable, you can tune it on a PC if you don't have a "tuning" laptop. Log your drive to work, view the logs at work and make tuning changes on your work PC, then enjoy the tuned drive home.



I don't want to get on a soapbox because there are a ton of great choices. It's my personal opinion to go with an Ostrich even if cost wasn't an issue, but ECMLink is a great choice too. You can't go wrong with either choice, this is coming from someone who has used both products. Not someone who has only owned ECMLink but wants to say how it's better than the Ostrich.


Disclaimer: Nothing in my post is directed at any one person. If you think it's directed at you...it's not. If it was I would use your name specifically. Don't get your feelings hurt, it's just my experience.

 

[hotrodssnova]

Well said. My1gdsm might have some input as well.

 

[bastarddsm]

Everyonce and a while you see stuff like a ECU+ or a Emanage cheap because they are outdated. They do work tho.

 

[Broke4speed]

The software developer side in me would love to see benchmarks and provable gains to this statement.

DSMECU.com...it's all there. Autotune, big maps, full SD (no MAF code left in the file), etc etc etc. 200+Hz logging too .

Kaxlon/basshead is very open with his work, he has videos and documentation available.

 

[erikoberdorfer]

If you can find one- the old HKS VPC was a great piece that was the ultimate back in the day. It allowed the removal of the stock MAF. I don't know what your ultimate power goals are- but lots of people used it with great success back in the day. Or, a maf translator works- or a flashed ecu- or an aem...

 

[bryanwheat]

If you can find one- the old HKS VPC was a great piece that was the ultimate back in the day. It allowed the removal of the stock MAF. I don't know what your ultimate power goals are- but lots of people used it with great success back in the day. Or, a maf translator works- or a flashed ecu- or an aem...

Vpc, , emanage, safc, and maf translator are all piggyback systems that don't offer good timing control. They all do the same thing, modify the airflow signal. None of those are very good options compared to tuning the stock ecu.

 

[aksam907]

i was also looking for a cheap tuneable option, i ended up going with the dsmlink v3, expensive but very well worth it. i am new to tuning and it is a very user friendly program and there is lots of forums including the one on ecmlink with plenty of information. i would recommend going the the link. you can sometimes find them used on here.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Every now and then on this forum, someone new or someone still researching will post up an open ended question as the title of a thread. It ends up eventually 5+ pages long of members throwing in their opinion, and debating amongst themselves on whats better..yet the op usually never responds back to be more clear.. Other threads that need real help would be lucky to get a few replies. Vague and endless thread titles and situations, its just the run around man !!

To the OP, not to be rude you spent really good money on fmic, mbc, fuel pump, 880cc injectors and you want the CHEAPEST tuning measure ??? Come on...can you be more specific on budget please ? Are you willing to research and learn how to use safc,ostrich,tuner pro, jackal, ecmlink ?
Honestly your in between 50-600 bucks depending how deep your pockets and knowledge are. You can go old school, modern user friendly, software and chip burning tech..etc.

 

[MY1GDSM]

I rarely have the free time to post on here much anymore or really the desire anymore... I won't get into that too much though. But since someone asked I'll say something here... I will say and please keep in mind If I quote you here I'm not likely responding to you. But rather touching on the topic to summarize my thoughts on what you brought up.

Hey guys. Its been forever since I've posted here. I have recently made the jump from completely stock 1g to a few mods. Installed a 31" X 11.75" X 3" full size FMIC, Greddy RS BOV, Hallman MBC (set to 14psi), ebay boost gauge. I have bought, but not installed PTE 880cc injectors and a supra 300lhp fuel pump. Before I install the fuel pump and injectors, what is the cheapest way to tune the upgraded fuel system?

As the last post before me said... What is your budget, what are your goals? are you going to change the setup on the car? or for that matter a lot? Can you tune a car? Do you need someone else in the end to do it for you? Lots of missing info. This is one of those topics that tends to get a bit of a debate. Though, not so much here this time. Surprisingly as there has been some one over time.

What have you looked into? have you read this? HERE

There really is wealth of information here in the Tech articles if you take a look.
Some of the more in depth info is buried in the bit larger threads, as well though(if you are looking into a specific options.). Much of what you read Regardless in the end should be take with a grain of salt.
In the end even if you shell out the cash for the "best" system on market even one that is user friendly you have to learn what you are doing. Graphical user interfaces(GUI) aside in the end most of systems are going to be doing the same thing your interface to use them is just going to be different.
Though some like an AEM EMS just have straight pulsewidth maps rather then fuel maps.
I don't want to get to into any specifics of any one system though or at least quite yet...

Although it's old tech, he could also get a chip burnt and have the SAFC for fine tuning. Old tech but it still works and it's cheap.

This really is going to be the Cheapest route. Not at all trying to sell anyone anything here as I do sell them. But if your setup isn't changing constantly with a new part every week. It's a good option for some that just want to get things running right and don't have any tuning knowledge or a huge budget. There are various people like myself or Donnie and others that burn chips.
If even that at it's most basic with some of the more readily accessible info out there is going to be too much, For you OP...

A logger is next to nothing. You can get a used palm for like 10 bucs these days. Build a cable for 5 bucks and run mmcd for free. 15 bucks for a logger, 30-50 bucks for a preprogrammed chip and 50 for an safc1 is quite a bit cheaper than link. It all depends on what you are looking to do, but you can make quite a bit of power like this. I can program up to 1000cc injectors with evilscribe.

Good example about ^ of just that... Just for reference here is some info on logging in my honest opinion this is something that any new dsmer needs to make their self familiar with. Here is some info on a quick an fairly easy way to get that going and on making a cable. HERE

yes logger, burned chip and safc is relatively cheap but is also not very good IMO. I went that route few years back and I finally switched to link so I paid twice for something I've should buy at first. Pay a little more and buy ecmlink, you won't need something else later. BUY ECMLINK .

This is something that a few others touch on and I want to bring up. Out of all the chips I've ever done about 99% of the time with issues that came up it was something with a car. Whether the owner just doesn't have the knowledge or just didn't invest in the means to diagnose there issues or didn't take the time to Fallow THIS when doing so... it's a bit off topic here But it all in the end has to be addressed for ANYONE to sort issues out.

Anyone that Really knows what they are doing or has been doing this stuff for awhile can get a car setup and in cases where there car is out the norm likely like myself stands behind what they do.

I know Jeff (keydiver) did A LOT of support for his chips as I do that is "included" whether people chose to take advantage of that by addressing matters properly is another story.

I ran a logger for a while dirt cheap free software and cable, cheapest, I think.

This is what was asked... Don't get me wrong V3 ECMlink is great product and the older version had great logging though not the amount of conrtol I like. But they are not the cheapest.

Why is custom chip burning not very good. I can fully adjust fuel and timing just like dsmlink with evilscribe or tunerpro. I have been doing it this way for like 10 years on quite a few different cars. I have had dsmlink also and tuned quite a few cars with it over the years. It just isn't tune on the fly. As i said earlier there is no need for the safc if you burn the chip right. You do not have the options right off the bat like with link such as stutter box, nltl, o2 sim, cel warning lights and so on, but the fuel and timing are fully tunable. All and all for the average person ecmlink is the best option if you can afford it. But the orginal poster was looking at different options. Telling him to just buy link when he asked his options isn't helpful in any way.

See here is something that I don't think a lof of people understand that are new. Most the people that still run Chips or an Ostrich or their own coding are the ones that got into this long ago when DSMlink didn't have real Timing control and maps that you could tune. I personally never was in much "awe" over the old. Like I have respect for Tom and Dave and they really did took ECMlink to another level and push. But There are a LOT of ways to fry a fish and for someone that is wanting to go about things there are other options and many that are less expensive.

He wants cheap, it's probably even cheaper to get the car fitted with an evo 8 ecu and tuning it that route than getting link.

For cheap, can't beat a chip.

You'll also need to buy a wideband in either case, so keep that in mind when thinking about budget (didn't see it in your list of things to go on soon).

Wideband should be one of the first things installed on a car it gives you valuable info and will give anyone that is new to these or any cars a better Idea of what is going on from stock and moving forward. He does have a 1g But an enterprising individual can hook up a 2G/Evo Ecu in a 1g fairly easy the info is out there and has been for some time

I run fic 2150's and every mod there is with a burnt chip. It's a pain burning a ton of chips to get the tune perfect, but once you have your tune it's fine.

As well as I have on BM 1450's I more recently am on a EVO ecu
But it's Like anything you just need to understand how things work and what needs adjusted were.

You can get a chip burner, and some chips for $50. What you can easily get with definition files floating around the internet, and free tuner pro software is speed density, if you want, injector compensation, 1g, 2g, or evo maf support, full fuel, and timing maps, launch control, no lift to shift, etc. There are some features that link has that are hard, or impossible to setup with a modified stock image.

But, don't expect to pop a question on tuners and get answers about modifying stock Ecu code. It's a steep learning curve, with little support.

I'd say that is true with anything It's more a matter of the info being more readily available for some things more than others and the majority of people wanting to be spoon feed... Rather then learn. No offence to anyone here with that it's just a matter of fact with anything today. I'm not that old and can say I'm sure a lot of people new here have no Idea what the Dewey decimal system is
I can remember having to go to the library to look things up... Now and for a long time its all a keystroke away.

Anyway Back on topic...

Link is just a more advanced user friendly version of chip burning. The stuff you tune in the DA tables are the same thing you change while chip tuning.

You can also find gm translator setups fairly cheap.

This is true and I wish more people understood that... I wouldn't put an old GM translator too high on the list.

But there is the GEN II units or Maf-pro going around pretty cheap something like that and a Chip would be for more than plenty without the hassle of getting a chip reburnt... for a less DIY type when it comes to timing maps and real tuning.

Ok, link isn't the cheapest but from personnal experience, a burned chip didn't worked well for me. My car never ran great with a keydiver chip, it always stalled on decel and bogged when I was snapping throttle to WOT from idle. So, I bought link and my car ran way better just at first startup but it's just my experience.

Seem my responce above... But Why do people do that? What exactly does it prove? I have a neighbor that Use to like to do that on cold start in there Honda before there bearing even got oil to them not sure where that car is now

Evo ecu can be flashed with a ebay vag com cable that's like 15 bucks shipped. The ecu is what 200? Then patch harness. Can be done but more of a pain. Either a burner or a ostrich is the way to go. There is a Swedish guy who has posted here on what he has done with the 1g ecu and its very amazing. True pressure based maps full control of fuel and timing. No lift to shift stutter box rotational idle warm up protection and many more features for the amazing price of free. I can care less what ppl have to say about link. I've used it and it is garbage utterly garbage.

All this the the biggest blob of misinformation out there....

You can't flash the Evo ecus with a Vag cable and more than you can fash an H8 ecu with one and if by some chance you could... I'd take an Openport 2.0 over that for the peace of mind ANY day and log with a 1.3... Though I have all this stuff sitting around so I am not the average" person. Link is not garbage by any mean either there again are just other options.

Im currently looking into cost effective tuning options myself, also a 1g so maybe this will help. An safc makes adjustments from your base tune correct? A custom burned chip and used safc2 are cheap, so couldn't you burn a chip with a good base tune for whatever your setup is and then use a safc to fine tune on the fly from there? (as long as you have a w/b) For instance burn the chip with 750cc and 2g maf etc and then do your tuning from there. Im not sure how well it works but safc2 also has a decel function to allow you to vent to atmosphere even with a maf out in front. Please let me know if im completely wrong, this is just theory ive come up with from reading.

This is more or less a decent setup for the average person cost effective and you can still make some adjustments if need be. I may sound biased here. But I can't count how many people I see that do get link and "because it user friendly" spend a year learning to tune and have mishaps. To each their own. I wouldn't discourage anyone from learning But, there are times when things are better left to those with experience not everything comes to people the same and some thing Truly are a learning experience and will take a lot of time and experience when you get more involved than just lining up a Target AFR.

Go for GM MAF and MAFT, cheap, easy and atmosferic bov xD
U need afr wideband ...

But not at all going to work without some form of way to adjust for the timing advance from pull as much fuel that is required... .

The software developer side in me would love to see benchmarks and provable gains to this statement.

I need to brush up on what I have seen so far... But, I'm with you on this one

Everyonce and a while you see stuff like a ECU+ or a Emanage cheap because they are outdated. They do work tho.

There are LOTS of options more then there ever has been... Sadly the people that still know how to use many of them are the people that not going to be asking the questions So many go over looked for someone on a budget like the OP.

If you can find one- the old HKS VPC was a great piece that was the ultimate back in the day. It allowed the removal of the stock MAF. I don't know what your ultimate power goals are- but lots of people used it with great success back in the day. Or, a maf translator works- or a flashed ecu- or an aem...

I have one... Not for sale, It sits on bench as Relic of time LONG gone.


I'll say this is summary that you don't gain knowledge without seeking it out. Nobody is ever going to be able to give anyone literal first hand expensive. The best way to learn is to use something. The majority of the options out there have free software and hardware you have to buy. Download everything you can pull up instruction manual and do some damn research yourselves Before even asking a question. Don't take that wrong OP

But, it's what knowledge you seek for yourself that you will gain and the knowledge you question that you think have now. That will allow you too with anything. Make any informed decision in the end.

 

[Broke4speed]

All this the the biggest blob of misinformation out there....

You can't flash the Evo ecus with a Vag cable and more than you can fash an H8 ecu with one and if by some chance you could... I'd take an Openport 2.0 over that for the peace of mind ANY day and log with a 1.3... Though I have all this stuff sitting around so I am not the average" person. Link is not garbage by any mean either there again are just other options.

Actually you CAN flash an evo 8 ecu with a VAG COM cable . I'm the one who pioneered that, and while it's not well known yet...it's getting around. If you look up my username on Youtube, I have a video of the very first VAG COM flash on a 3G ecu. I've helped a bunch of folks on Club3G do the same, 4cyl and 6cyl ecus, as long as evoscan can flash it (7052/7055 processor), it works fine.

Basically, if the cable can datalog an Evo 8 ecu, it can read/write to it. The cable is simply a pass-through device, and it's almost identical to the 1.3 cables, minus the voltage stabilizing stuff. If you provide 12v to the flash pin on the evo 8 ecu, then all you need is a way to get the info into it...and you can do that with the freebie flashing utility inside Evoscan . ECUFlash won't recognize the cable, obviously.

I've done this many times, on 01+ 3G ecus, 02-05 Lancer A/T ecus, etc. The H8 ECUS (2g) can't be done though, you are correct. That's not because the cable is incompatible, it's because the read/write kernel is locked into ECUFlash. Applying varying voltage to a pin to engage boot mode is simple, it's the memory modeling that's tough .

Again...DSMECU.com .

 

[CrackedDSM]

Dsmecu.com is a great resource for all of this, just don't be like me and piss the mod team off. Permabanned.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Make your own cable and palm pilot gm maf and a wideband,, mmcd cheap, one your tired of that move on to something else.

 

[MY1GDSM]

it's almost identical to the 1.3 cables, minus the voltage stabilizing stuff. If you provide 12v to the flash pin on the evo 8 ecu, then all you need is a way to get the info into it..

So like I said It Won't...

I wouldn't call modding the cable or the means you are going about this as a Simple it "works" or "CAN" be done...

I'm aware of what you can do and can't be done with the VAG cables on many platforms though it's not not my first forte... I stand by what I said though the 2.0 is the most Ideal means to Flash any ECU.

I am short on time again or I would have gone over this all a bit more and in more detail.

 

[Arthris]

So like I said It Won't...

I wouldn't call modding the cable or the means you are going about this as a Simple it "works" or "CAN" be done...

I'm aware of what you can do and can't be done with the VAG cables on many platforms though it's not not my first forte... I stand by what I said though the 2.0 is the most Ideal means to Flash any ECU.

I am short on time again or I would have gone over this all a bit more and in more detail.

You are still wrong. You CAN flash the evo 8 ecu using a ebay vagcom kkl cable. All you need to do is provide the 12V on the flashing pin. You dont even need to "hack" the cable to this.

 

[Broke4speed]

So like I said It Won't...

I wouldn't call modding the cable or the means you are going about this as a Simple it "works" or "CAN" be done...

I'm aware of what you can do and can't be done with the VAG cables on many platforms though it's not not my first forte... I stand by what I said though the 2.0 is the most Ideal means to Flash any ECU.

I am short on time again or I would have gone over this all a bit more and in more detail.

Huh? 12v from the battery to ecu pin 79 IIRC, unmodded VAG COM cable, and a copy of Evoscan. There is an evo 7/8/9 flashing utility contained in it, and you can use ecuflash to edit the files.

I agree that the 2.0 is the best way, as I have one, as a couple of the MMCFlash modules, but I don't appreciate you telling me what can and can't be done, when I've done it many times, and helped others do it.

I'm currently running my Colt 4G63T on an ecu from a 2002 Hyundai Sonata A/T, flashed with a modified Evo 8 ROM, flashed with the VAG COM. Would you like to tell me my DD doesn't actually run? I didn't start out trying to convince anyone that the e8 ecu is the way to go, I also burn chips, have an ostrich, and really like Link...but dude, you're wrong.

If you're interested in finding out HOW wrong, log back into dsmecu.com and check it out. We've been doing it since 2011-2012. The subaru guys (same ecu processor) have been using the VAG COM to flash their ecus for a LOT longer than we have.