Car Won't Crank Over

[judozuna]

Okay so I've been building this 95 talon tsi awd for almost a year now and I was finally ready to crank it over the other night. When I tried to crank it over it wouldn't crank and just let the fuel pump run. It turned out that I had put ground wire from the bell housing onto the inside terminal of the starter solenoid and that isn't where its supposed to go. I hooked it up like one I would do at work on a Caterpillar tractor without a 2nd thought. Well everything in the car just quit working and I was done for the night so i went to bed. I'm reluctant to blame the starter because it was working fine before I tore the engine down.

After doing some research on tuners I figured out what the problem was and that it could have blown a bunch of fuses and relays. Tonight I replaced the battery terminals and took that ground wire off of the starter and put it onto the bell housing. After doing some snooping around under the dash I found what looks like 3 relays under and behind where the radio is. I also found that the ignition switch fuse had been blown.. After replacing the ignition switch fuse all of the electronics started working again but it still won't crank over. It doesn't even make a clicking sound like the solenoid is engaging or anything. I tried to check for voltage at the signal wire on the starter while attempting to crank but the crappy harbor freight multimeter I had access to went on the fritz so I couldn't test it. I also tested the alternator fuse for continuity because I read that it could cause a no crank situation but that one tested out fine. I'm going to try to get my hands on a fluke meter do more testing on Thursday.

Long story short... I need your guys' help

Here is a list of questions that I need answers to.

1. Is the starter solenoid in the location I described above? if so which of the three is it and is it ok to jump it or does it need replaced if it is faulty? If not where exactly is it?

2. does the signal wire going to the starter put out 12v? and I'm assuming that testing the signal wire is in effect testing the starter relay, is that correct?

3.If I run 12v directly from the battery to the signal wire spade connector on the starter will that engage the starter and crank the engine over which would mean the starter relay is my problem and the starter and anything else isn't?

Sorry for such a long post and I hope you guys can help me out.

Edit:
just updated my mod list

 

[98DiamondStar]

While you were in there, did you by any chance knock off the trigger wire for the starter solenoid? I've seen this before personally, fuel pump will still run, and NOTHING happens when you turn the key.
Just a quick idea, might be a day-saver: -Ryan '98DiamondStar' Stockman

 

[judozuna]

I believe what you were referring to as the trigger wire is what I was referring to as the signal wire?

Or am I incorrect?

 

[98DiamondStar]

Yes, Trigger=Signal. I JUST found a link that may help you out, as far as testing things go. Seems like your problem is not uncommon after doing a build.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

I know how it feels testing all these things, kind of like chasing your tail, so I'm going to continue on the hunt to help you out on this one untill she starts up.

 

[judozuna]

Yes, Trigger=Signal. I JUST found a link that may help you out, as far as testing things go. Seems like your problem is not uncommon after doing a build.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

I know how it feels testing all these things, kind of like chasing your tail, so I'm going to continue on the hunt to help you out on this one untill she starts up.

Thanks man I appreciate your help. It seems like I've covered most of the bases on that thread. I'm %90 sure that my battery is ok but I only tested it with a test light. I guess I'll be taking it out and doing a load test on it but I have a feeling that it is the starter relay. I'm going to try to borrow my buddies fluke meter today so I can test that signal wire. I'm thinking that testing the signal wire is the same as testing the starter relay but I still haven't been verified on that. That link also says that the starter relay is near the raido which leads me to believe it is one of the three that I found under there but I still need to know which of the three it is if anyone has any insight on that. How much does one of those starter relays cost?

 

[98DiamondStar]

your going to want to find the one with the Part Number: MB398020. Head to a mitsu dealer, it'll be around 40-50 bucks. That P# is affiliated with a number of different things, because (to quote 'ericbev' out of Coal City, IL) "Relays are rated by the voltage and current that is needed to activate the armature and are often used by their manufacturer for different tasks on different vehicles."
Keep on Keepin on man! She will live once again! - Ryan '98DiamondStar' Stockman.

 

[judozuna]

Update: I got a hold of the fluke meter today. I'll be working on the car again tomorrow night.

 

[judozuna]

Ok so I got it started!!! It sounds so nice. Will be working on fine tuning it and everything all day tomorrow. It turned out that the start relay was sticking and when I took it out to test it, it came unstuck and when I put it in and cranked over the car started right up on the first try!

Thanks for all of your help 98DiamondStar I couldn't have done it without you.

 

[98DiamondStar]

GREAT NEWS! So happy to hear you got it going, it's the best feeling in the world to hear it fire up. Glad I could offer a little bit of help, keep me posted in my in-box on her progress

 

[johnson512n28]

Yeah, starters can be really weird sometimes. And to answer your question if you hadn't already found out - Signal wire to the starter solenoid does get a straight 12V. Really glad to hear you got it up and running! Now to keep it that way