Car will not start, have spark, fuel, compr. Whats wrong?

[zzzwilliams3200]

Heres the deal, I have been reading every post I can find about this problem, and I thought for sure I would be able to figure it out. My car had been sitting for around 2 weeks, I finally got my front mount and was ready to install it when I cannot get my car to start. I have spark on all 4 plugs, I have fuel pressure, plenty of battery to crank it fast, all timing marks are still aligned, compression is good across the board and I still cannot get it to start. If I crank it for around 10 seconds, I will get an occasional chug and it will fire once or twice but it wont stay running. I did get it to run for a few seconds on just 1 or 2 cylinders but none of the others kicked in. I get power to the ECU when I turn on the ignition, checked the ECU for burnt caps (they were replaced 2 months ago) and didnt find anything abnormal. I havent however taken my CAS off yet to manually spin it, but I'm getting rpms on DSMlink (is that where the engine measures it? cas?) Anyone feel free to chime in as I am eager to go try anything. Thanks in advance!!\

Zach

 

[GSX93DSM]

Check the power module on the intake I know if it goes bad the car will not start.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

OK, did you check to make sure your injectors were firing? If you have 12 volts to the injectors, you still have to ground them. This is done through the PCM.

Use your test light and hook it to the negative post of your battery. Probe one of your injector wires with the key on engine off. One side should come up hot and light up your light. If it does, then you have your 12 volt side. Now, hook your light to the positive post of your battery and have someone crank the engine while you are probing the other side of the injector wire. This is the grounding side which is the pcm driver.

It should flicker or flash. If it does nothing but stay on or off, then you have lost your driver side. Not all that uncommon given these PCM's.

Get ahold of steve the Uber Wiseman and see if he can give you a lending hand.

Good Luck

By the way. Spray some carb cleaner which is known flammable into the intake while cranking. If it tries to start, then you know the spark and everything else is good. Just be careful because if it backfires, you will get a new hairdo. Have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

As always, SAFETY FIRST.

 

[zzzwilliams3200]

I havent tried to test the injectors, but...after trying to use starting fluid (took out plugs, sprayed directly into cylinder, I got no fire at all). So out come the plugs again and testing for spark once again, and I have a spark on just one of the plugs. I switched plugs with another that wasnt sparking and put it where the sparking one was, and it didnt spark. So...maybe in all of this cranking I have fouled 3 plugs. Tomorrow I'll have some new ones in there, and I'll test the injector harness with the test light. Also, the CTS is hooked up and there are no broken wires to it either.
After reading some of the posts from steve I cant think of anyone else I'd want to have in my driveway helping me get this thing going haha. He sure knows a lotta stuff. Thanks for the replies and I'll keep you posted with what happens with the new plugs tomorrow.

Zach

OK, did you check to make sure your injectors were firing? If you have 12 volts to the injectors, you still have to ground them. This is done through the PCM.

Use your test light and hook it to the negative post of your battery. Probe one of your injector wires with the key on engine off. One side should come up hot and light up your light. If it does, then you have your 12 volt side. Now, hook your light to the positive post of your battery and have someone crank the engine while you are probing the other side of the injector wire. This is the grounding side which is the pcm driver.

It should flicker or flash. If it does nothing but stay on or off, then you have lost your driver side. Not all that uncommon given these PCM's.

Get ahold of steve the Uber Wiseman and see if he can give you a lending hand.

Good Luck

By the way. Spray some carb cleaner which is known flammable into the intake while cranking. If it tries to start, then you know the spark and everything else is good. Just be careful because if it backfires, you will get a new hairdo. Have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

As always, SAFETY FIRST.

 

[femmeDSM]

Did you just check the wires on the Coolant Temp Sensor, or did you check the actual unit (resistance)? This would be my guess, if the new plugs go in and it's still not firing up.

Also, it's a long shot, but how much gas is in the car? If it's low, and the gas is old, you might need to fill it up with some fresh gas, along with something like Seafoam. I don't know how bad gas could go in 2 weeks, but it wouldn't hurt.

 

[zzzwilliams3200]

I only checked the wires, so I will check the sensor itself if the plugs dont do it. Anyone have a link to the procedure? Also, I went up to the gas station to get 3 more gallons of 93 and I put that in bacause the gauge was down close to 1/8 tank. No change though. Some of the other wires near the t-stat housing have cracked off like my gauge in the dash, does that whole section of the harness disconnect or can I get just the plugs somewhere?

 

[femmeDSM]

I only checked the wires, so I will check the sensor itself if the plugs dont do it. Anyone have a link to the procedure? Also, I went up to the gas station to get 3 more gallons of 93 and I put that in bacause the gauge was down close to 1/8 tank. No change though. Some of the other wires near the t-stat housing have cracked off like my gauge in the dash, does that whole section of the harness disconnect or can I get just the plugs somewhere?

Here, this should do it....Something I wrote for an article I'm posting later (funny how it came in handy right when I had the file open, ).

I have pictures as well. Just let me know if you need to see them (they're from my 1990 though, so yours may differ slightly). As for the gauge wires, mine broke as well, and I just cut the broken piece off and spliced about 10 inches of new wire to it (did the Coolant Temp Sensor this way, as well).

Testing the Coolant Temperature Sensor on a 1g:

Unplug the black plastic clip and turn the key ON (do not start the car). Connect the negative probe of your DVOM to a good ground on the car, and the positive to one of the plugs in the clip. With key ON you should see approx. 4.5-4.9 volts. You may have to try both of the plugs until you find the one that sees voltage – one sees voltage and the other does not.

Assuming this checks out okay (99% of the time it will), we will now move on to resistance.

Basically speaking, as the temperature of the coolant INcreases, the resistance value will DEcrease.

Note: The following procedure can be replicated in a dish of water (see instructions below) on a car that does not start. Just dismiss any mention of starting the car.

With the engine cold and the sensor unplugged, turn your DVOM to resistance (ohms) and connect the probes to each of the two prongs on the sensor. The prongs on the ECT will form a sort of "T" shape: kind of like this: | \

With engine cold, resistance should read somewhere between 2,200 to 2,700 ohms (if it's a little higher, it is due to extremely cold ambient temperatures. Somewhere close to this range is okay though).

Now, plug the sensor back in and start the car. Get the engine up to operating temperature, and turn it back off. Unplug the sensor again, and repeat the resistance test. (BE CAREFUL, it is VERY HOT down there now). The resistance should now read approx 280 to 350 ohms.

If it is extremely cold where you are, if you can't quite reach the sensor, or if the car does not start, you can unbolt the sensor and remove it. If you do this, have a rag handy to plug the hole you make by removing the sensor -- lots of coolant will come out. You can drain the coolant if you want to avoid this.

Put the bottom of the sensor (round, gold metal part) into a dish of room temp water (50-80*) and measure resistance. Then, heat the water to approx. 180-200* (not quite boiling), and repeat, using the same resistance values stated above.

If resistance is not within specs, replace the sensor.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

When you replace the plugs, try the carb spray again to see if it tries to run. That will either point to the ignition or the fuel system as being the culprit.

Good post on the coolant sensor Claire.

 

[femmeDSM]

Thanks
My guess is it will try to run with the starter fluid after the new plugs...I'll bet all that cranking and carb spray killed the plugs.

(BTW, when my ECT went out, the only way I could get it running was carb spray in the cylinders. Just FYI )

 

[zzzwilliams3200]

Well you guys, I'm happy to report that after I installed the NEW plugs, I tested the spark to make sure I had all 4 plugs firing. I had spark, so I sprayed some starting fluid in each cylinder and cranked it over and it fired right up like nothing ever was wrong. I had a lot of blue/black smoke from all of the crap from cranking it. So, I had fouled the plugs and that was what brought me down. I am sorry to waste anyone's time, but happy this thing is alive again! Thanks everyone for the help and quick responses; I have a turbo buick and let me tell you it would have taken weeks to get some answers on the boards. Once again thanks to everyone.

Zach

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Sometimes it's the simplest of things that plague us.

 

[steve]

I am sorry to waste anyone's time, but happy this thing is alive again!

If you learned a few new things you didn't waste anybodys time.

Glad to hear it's running again.

Steve