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2G Car running extremely rich to the point it cant idle

Posted by HolsetGST, Jan 11, 2019

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  1. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    208
    59
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    post up a photo of the injectors. never tried running HiZ injectors witout the delete plug installed. Will it even run without that?
     

    Street Build 838  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    Tuner will be back today, i'll provide him with all the info you guys have given me, The car currently has a brand new air filter, the tuner suggested using NGK BR8ES gapped at 22 and Taylor 77232 wires, he swears by them i've put faith in him cause he's tuned a bunch of evos here and a couple 1000+ horsepower cars as well
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  3. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    I took a picture of the injector it looks like the blue ID 1000CC injector but we'll still try pulling the fuel, also i took a picture of the plug from the resistor box, are these the wires that needed to be soldered together or have the resistor box delete plug attached?
     

    Attached Files:

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  4. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    The air filter is completely fine, i took a picture of the injector still on the rail, seems to be ID 1000cc blue injectors, they are high impedance as well, i took a photo of the plug from the resistor box, is this the one that needs to be soldered together or with an resistor delete plug?thank you 20190112_073613.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  5. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    156
    50
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    That looks like it yes. Should have 5 wires. You have the option of removing the plug from the box itself and soldering those wires together to make your own delete plug or you could simply modify the harness itself. Ideally, I'd buy a plug from one of the vendors. It's realtively cheap and you aren't forced to commit to high z injectors permanently. Of course you can always change the wiring back but why hack it up? Just my opinion.

    Also, see the post below. Appears that the car will need the plug or soldered to run. You cannot simply unplug it.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/hi...tor-pack-delete-wiring.464250/#post-153321917
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019

    Autocross Build 2K  4

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.06 @ 105.75 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  6. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,312
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    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    I'm confused as to why the delete plug wasn't on the car in the first place? Maybe ask the previous owner if he/she has it with them? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    1,309
    294
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Why dont we first do a resistance check on all of those injectors? lets make sure they are name brand injectors and not junk from China, that blue area is just the injector adapters, those could be any injector in there. Maybe pull them and try to blow air through them with an air compressor to make sure one or more arent leaking straight through. I would start by pulling them and finding out exactly what you have in there, even if you get it to run by messing around with it, you still want to know for sure the brand and part number and make sure they have the right resistance and that they are clean and leak free. The car wont start with no injector resistor plugged in or a resistor delete plugged in, its an incomplete circuit so forget that, it needs a delete plug or the resistor plugged in.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  13

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    302
    74
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Mexico, Arizona
    That is I was exactly wondering that how the car was running with the previous owner with this setup. Maybe the previous owner changed something before sold the car to the OP. Otherwise doesn't make sense that still has the resistor pack connected with those injectors.
     

    Street Build 660  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Drag Race Build 480  1

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  9. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    208
    59
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    A pic of the whole injector. That pic is nearly useless. Looks like youve found the issue anyway
     

    Street Build 838  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  10. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    208
    59
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    Ive seen way worse than this.....Im sure you have too. Good sense doesnt come standard for everyone.

    (I say this referring to whoever passed the car off this way)
     

    Street Build 838  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  11. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,312
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    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    Sir, are you insinuating that a "just needs a tune" car doesn't have the parts previous said it has? Blasphemy.
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    dexterholland04 and steve like this.
  12. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    Thanks for all the info and help guys, tuner still wasn't able to get the car running right even after the resistor plug delete, at this point I'm not sure what to do,same issues again car runs pig rich 9 to 10s after startup and won't run unless foot is on the gas, I have evoscan software would a log help to try and find this gremlin? Car was a project from original owner who had an evo8 he simply put bought the car stock put on all the mods listed and never got to finishing it, this is my first dsm and I'm adamant in finding a solution to get this car figured out,I'll have to pull out the injectors and inspect them as previous poster said I work on an oil rig so I'll be gone the next couple days until I can do that.
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    156
    50
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I think physically verifying the injectors and making sure the ecu is calibrated for those injectors is the only next step that makes sense at this point. Everything else is guessing and trusting the previous owner. Luckily removing injectors on these cars is pretty easy and accessible. Let us know what you find.
     

    Autocross Build 2K  4

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.06 @ 105.75 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,312
    1,033
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    I'm not familiar with the black box ecu but it's likely that your ecu is not configured for 1000cc injectors.
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    The blackbox h8 ecu is the 98/99 gst/gsx ecu my car is a 97 gst I guess original owner swapped it out. What baffled me was the tuner even scaled the injectors to 2000cc just to see if that would lean things out and the car just doesn't respond the anything he dialed in, he was at my house for over 4 hours trying to get things dialled in, the only way to get the car to idle without having to press the pedal is to adjust the fpr insanely low to 5 psi and it still idles pig rich. This is beyond me never seen this issue before.
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,312
    1,033
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    Hmm, you could possibly have super rich afr targets but I'm sure your tuner would have caught that. Perhaps there is a severe mechanical timing issue? Are you on a 2g maf? Speed density?
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    My tuner switched it over to speed density I have an omni 4 bar map and gm iat, before we switched over to SD the maf would let the car be extremely lean when we switched to SD it does the opposite and runs extremely rich
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  18. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    302
    74
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Mexico, Arizona
    You said it got too lean with a MAF. Was it with proper fuel pressure or with 5 psi? If it was with 5 psi of fuel pressure, just raise the fuel pressure and see what happens. and check if the injectors get controllable. If this would allow you to control the injectors then there is a possibility that the SD is not working properly with ECU.
    And make sure if the ECU is not fried, there is no hidden MAFT, SAFC or some that kind of devices under the hood or the dash.
    Since nobody in this thread can know if the car was a running car or a project car which had never run. If you can ask the previous owner for more details, that would be a big help to solve the issue.
     

    Street Build 660  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Drag Race Build 480  1

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    I was on the phone with the previous owner, there was no safc or any piggy back stuff, the only time I turned down the AFPR to 5 psi was after we went to SD
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  20. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    At this point I'm starting to think the ecu is bad, but will a bad ecu still allow ecuflash to send tunes to it?
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    1,309
    294
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Are you sure you have a speed density base file in your ecu? you cant run a speed density file without running speed density and you cant run a maf file without a maf, those sound like a source of trouble now also, go back to the maf first until you get this figured out, I would install stock injectors right now and put a stock flash back on the car to see if it runs alright in stock condition.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  13

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  22. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    Hey guys thanks for the replies,so the issue is when the car was in the process of converting to speed density, the maf ground was also cut therefore the maf was not able to pass on any readings to the ecu therefore dumping unholy levels of gas I also found out the maf was no good and replaced with a new one, the problem I'm having now is the car idles super lean then dies, my wideband cycles between 19.8 to 22(this is with the AFPR at 43.5 psi) then goes all red and completely dies, not sure what is causing this issue now. to further reiterate the maf is plugged in and also the omni 4 bar map is still on i dont have the stock one around...any ideas what could possibly be casuing this issue?i did a search and the only thing i can see with my symptoms is the cam angle sensor could cause this issue,but not sure, i disconnected the plug to that sensor and the car wouldnt start but when i did it went back to the same issue of idling lean then stalling out...help?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  23. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    If anyone helps me solve this issue I'll send them 50 bucks
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  24. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,312
    1,033
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    How are you tuning the car now that the tuner is gone?
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

    25
    1
    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    I have a tactrix 2.0 however I haven't attempted to tune the car cause I got no experience with ecuflash software
     

    118  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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