Car just dosent feel fast

[totaleclipse3]

I have been a member of this site for about two years now and I have not posted very much. I have put hours and hours into researching information, and I have gone from knowing nothing about cars to being pretty savvy. With that being said, I have finally accomplished most of my goals for my 97 gst, I have put in a K&N, a hard pipe ram air intake, a megan 3" turbo back exhauset, a turbo xs MBC running 15 to 16 psi, autometer gauges, greddy upper and lower ICP's, a greddy type-s BOV, and have purchased a 14b, though it is not installed yet.
So to my point, I just recently took a ride with one of my friends in his evo 8. It is 100% stock but it felt ungodly fast, it seems as if my car isn't even close to what his feels like. I'm feeling pretty defeated at this point. Am I wrong to think that I should be at least close to 300hp, I did practically all the stage 1 mods excluding the larger turbo, but does that even matter since it says you only need 16 psi's for that stage of upgrades and I know the t25 or 14b is capable of that. My car just doesn't feel that much faster than stock. Is there something I am missing here? Thank you for any advise you have to give.

 

[voodoogsx]

I have been a member of this site for about two years now and I have not posted very much. I have put hours and hours into researching information, and I have gone from knowing nothing about cars to being pretty savvy. With that being said, I have finally accomplished most of my goals for my 97 gst, I have put in a K&N, a hard pipe ram air intake, a megan 3" turbo back exhauset, a turbo xs MBC running 15 to 16 psi, autometer gauges, greddy upper and lower ICP's, a greddy type-s BOV, and have purchased a 14b, though it is not installed yet.
So to my point, I just recently took a ride with one of my friends in his evo 8. It is 100% stock but it felt ungodly fast, it seems as if my car isn't even close to what his feels like. I'm feeling pretty defeated at this point. Am I wrong to think that I should be at least close to 300hp, I did practically all the stage 1 mods excluding the larger turbo, but does that even matter since it says you only need 16 psi's for that stage of upgrades and I know the t25 or 14b is capable of that. My car just doesn't feel that much faster than stock. Is there something I am missing here? Thank you for any advise you have to give.

Do you have a way of tuning the car because that would seem to be your next step? Bolton parts can only get you so much more power, the other part is actually adjusting fuel, timing, air.... I also don't think it's fair to compare an evo with an eclipse. The engine may be similar, but there are other components that have changed that affect how that car runs. plus it has a 16g

Read up on the tuning part and look into dsm link. I've upgraded the bolton parts as well and I'm starting to ebark on the fun process of tuning the engine to get max performance without blowing anything up...I said fun right..?

Good luck!

 

[laserspeeddemon]

The T25 is garabage and you will notice that not matter WHAT level you boost is set at, it will fall off to 10 psi as you go through the RPM band. The number one reason you're car is slow is because of that passifier you call a turbo.

Loss the T25 and see the difference.

 

[totaleclipse3]

Thanks for the reply, I was def. thinking about getting into tunning but I'm not sure I want to dive in just yet, It's really expensive and I don't really have anyone around here that could help me out as far as learning the whole tuning process. I don't have an upgraded fuel pump or injectors, I'm sure that would make all the difference in the world. I was just curious how people were getting close to 300 hp out of just the stage 1 mods, the tuning software and fuel mods didn't come until stage 2. Again thank you for all your help guys.

 

[wishnfor4g63T]

The evo's make around 280 hp factory. The few mods you have are great but really hard to match an evo at that. I've raced a few also and it's no comparison . Without hitting the dyno it's hard to say how much hp you are making but with my guess it would be easy to say 250, + or - 10 hp. A good idea would be to check the members section and the 1/4 mile times. Check the people who are making 300 hp and what mod's they have that would be a good place to see where you stand.

Seems i've been beat to the punch but it also would be a good time for a tune!!!

 

[totaleclipse3]

The T25 is garabage and you will notice that not matter WHAT level you boost is set at, it will fall off to 10 psi as you go through the RPM band. The number one reason you're car is slow is because of that passifier you call a turbo.

Loss the T25 and see the difference.

Do you think the 14b install would give me a big difference? I have one ready to be put on but I havent gotten around to it quite yet?

 

[emoguitarboy]

IMO I'd look into the T28 or bigger, look like the stocker from the outside and is a direct bolt up, I just did the swap and I did notice a big diffrence I'm running close to what you have (installing the hard pipe ASAP, just need to go to the HD performance store (Home depot for those of you that don't know) and get some couplets and T-clamps.

The next step is tuning (just like me) and if you get DSMlink they have a full forum that you could get on for help...yes nothing beats someone standing next to you scratching their scalp just as hard as you, but its a start...Once you learn you may be able to help out some local DSMer's yourself.

The other rout is the PITA route, Get a Logger, (S)AFC1/2/neo.

Regardless you're going to want a wideband & I would suggest a EGT.

Pick up a 190 or 255w/FPR and some good size injectors.

All in all you'll spend anywhere between 500 & 1100 and a good tune, it should feel like you're going faster...that or you can get a body kit, massive wing and paint your car an obnotious color to make it look like you're going faster jk jk

 

[totaleclipse3]

IMO I'd look into the T28 or bigger, look like the stocker from the outside and is a direct bolt up, I just did the swap and I did notice a big diffrence I'm running close to what you have (installing the hard pipe ASAP, just need to go to the HD performance store (Home depot for those of you that don't know) and get some couplets and T-clamps.

The next step is tuning (just like me) and if you get DSMlink they have a full forum that you could get on for help...yes nothing beats someone standing next to you scratching their scalp just as hard as you, but its a start...Once you learn you may be able to help out some local DSMer's yourself.

The other rout is the PITA route, Get a Logger, (S)AFC1/2/neo.

Regardless you're going to want a wideband & I would suggest a EGT.

Pick up a 190 or 255w/FPR and some good size injectors.

All in all you'll spend anywhere between 500 & 1100 and a good tune, it should feel like you're going faster...that or you can get a body kit, massive wing and paint your car an obnotious color to make it look like you're going faster jk jk

Great info, are you running a stock fuel setup? The reason I bought a 14b instead of a bigger turbo is because I was told that if you don't have enough fuel to run them then they aren't efficient, like they will spool to slow and will bog down. at 16 psi is there really that much of a gain by getting a T28 or big 16g. If so then I am all for it.

 

[98eclipsekidd08]

my T25 is holding 15psi in all gears with no lag or anything and its not dropping off. A bigger turbo is a nice thing to have ha.

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

If you hope to be as fast as an EVO I definitely recommend you do a lot of reading. There is tons of free info on tuning floating around. Getting 300hp out of a DSM isn't just a matter of big exhaust and turning up the boost. You want to do it right the first time so that you can put down the power reliably. I'm a 1g guy so I really don't know anything about the T25, but putting a better turbo in will definitely make a big difference. I know that there are people putting out decent power on a 14b. Just be SURE you can monitor things before you start cranking up the boost. I'd recommend at the very least that you re-wire your fuel pump. RRE has a good chart for fuel requirements here. And don't even think about going with bigger injectors before you do some reading and get yourself at least an AFC. RRE has a good upgrade path chart and basics on setting up the AFC (though its the old AFC). You can dig around and find much more in-depth info on various forums. There some good tech articles around here. The great thing about DSM's is how much good information is readily available for them. Read up on the VFAQ and tech articles.

Making EVO type power will require time, money, and knowledge. You could just rush into it and crank up the boost, but your car will run like crap and things will break fast. Don't feel bad about how fast your car is now. Just think about the fact that once your car *is* fast, you'll have so much more knowledge and have spend so much less money than someone who just goes out and buys a $30k+ car and jumps in the drivers seat.

 

[totaleclipse3]

my T25 is holding 15psi in all gears with no lag or anything and its not dropping off. A bigger turbo is a nice thing to have ha.

My t25 hits 15psi's for about two seconds then drops to 10 or 11 psi's Im thinking that has allot to do with my problem.

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

And don't even think about going with bigger injectors

I went "Napoleon Dynamite" on you for a second there!

 

[totaleclipse3]

If you hope to be as fast as an EVO I definitely recommend you do a lot of reading. There is tons of free info on tuning floating around. Getting 300hp out of a DSM isn't just a matter of big exhaust and turning up the boost. You want to do it right the first time so that you can put down the power reliably. I'm a 1g guy so I really don't know anything about the T25, but putting a better turbo in will definitely make a big difference. I know that there are people putting out decent power on a 14b. Just be SURE you can monitor things before you start cranking up the boost. I'd recommend at the very least that you re-wire your fuel pump. RRE has a good chart for fuel requirements here. And don't even think about going with bigger injectors before you do some reading and get yourself at least an AFC. RRE has a good upgrade path chart and basics on setting up the AFC (though its the old AFC). You can dig around and find much more in-depth info on various forums. There some good tech articles around here. The great thing about DSM's is how much good information is readily available for them. Read up on the VFAQ and tech articles.

Making EVO type power will require time, money, and knowledge. You could just rush into it and crank up the boost, but your car will run like crap and things will break fast. Don't feel bad about how fast your car is now. Just think about the fact that once your car *is* fast, you'll have so much more knowledge and have spend so much less money than someone who just goes out and buys a $30k+ car and jumps in the drivers seat.

I def. agree with you, searching through these forums are the only reason I know anything about DSM's, I will get into tunning when I get a bit of extra cash, the whole concept is a bit scary though, I wish I had people to help me trouble shoot before I through on bigger injectors and try to tune myself. Im thinking about using evoscan as a data logger, and I plan on rewiring asap.

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

I def. agree with you, searching through these forums are the only reason I know anything about DSM's, I will get into tunning when I get a bit of extra cash, the whole concept is a bit scary though, I wish I had people to help me trouble shoot before I through on bigger injectors and try to tune myself. Im thinking about using evoscan as a data logger, and I plan on rewiring asap.

I guess my point is that you don't need cash to do the learning part. You can learn so much before you "get into tuning". Take it one step at a time. Get a logger, learn how it works just by monitoring your car at stock settings. Then turn up the boost a little, watch your datalogs, and when you get knock (or see evidence of it since you have a 2g), back off on the boost a little. Then take it up a step with a fuel pump, injectors, and an AFC. AFC is pretty straight forward, just don't try to take the car beyond what the AFC is capable of doing. From there you can look into an upgraded chip, DSMLink, or AEM EMS. MAFT is an option too...(oh, as is DSM Map and ECU +). The way I look at it, the AFC is so cheap, especially if you get a used one...and it will help you get into the world of tuning. Be sure you monitor with a datalogger, and I'd REALLY recommend a wideband O2 sensor since it will help you know exactly what your car is doing. You don't even have to run the WBO2 to your ECU, you can just use it as a reference for your tuning. EGT really helps too. I recommend Zeitronix Zt-2 for a good WBO2/EGT/boost gauge combo for under $600

As a side note, if you have the money you can skip the logger/afc part and go directly to DSMLink if you want. It's really up to how you want to go about it.

Good luck, and have fun!

 

[voodoogsx]

My t25 hits 15psi's for about two seconds then drops to 10 or 11 psi's Im thinking that has allot to do with my problem.

Mine did the same thing....I went with the bigT28 upgrade which worked quite nicely....It's only pushing 13psi but I noticed the difference, and it certinaly put a grin on my face when it held boost all the way through the rpm range...I really need to tune it, but I was waiting until I got 550's, a fuel pump and fpr. DSMlink is also pretty useful if it fits within your budget.

 

[Talonracn50]

my T25 is holding 15psi in all gears with no lag or anything and its not dropping off. A bigger turbo is a nice thing to have ha.

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

Originally Posted by 98eclipsekidd08 View Post
my T25 is holding 15psi in all gears with no lag or anything and its not dropping off. A bigger turbo is a nice thing to have ha.

I think it was supposed to read:

"my T25 is holding 15psi in all gears with no lag or anything and its not dropping off, however, a bigger turbo is a nice thing to have."

...I could be wrong tho

 

[TearsForTalon]

Thanks for the reply, I was def. thinking about getting into tunning but I'm not sure I want to dive in just yet, It's really expensive and I don't really have anyone around here that could help me out as far as learning the whole tuning process.

Tuning may be expensive but its inevitable and still the cheapest way to get it feeling fast. If you just neglect you're going to have some seriouse problems.

Also, not trying to be a jerk but you're not throwing down 300hp. At least not at the wheels. A fuel system overhaul will get you there though.

Good luck!

 

[numlock666]

Agreeing with TearsForTalon here. A 2G stock running best (perfect compression, no boost leaks, everything tip top shape) 210hp at the crank. So say about 180 at the wheels. Those bolt on mods you have dont arent "power adders" they free up the more power the engine already has.

I have put in a K&N, a hard pipe ram air intake, a megan 3" turbo back exhauset, a turbo xs MBC running 15 to 16 psi, autometer gauges, greddy upper and lower ICP's, a greddy type-s BOV, and have purchased a 14b, though it is not installed yet.

The KN and 3" turbo back only frees up restrictions, alowing faster spool, as far as top end power gains, not much if any. Turning up the boost may be the only main thing that increased power, but a t-25 will give you about 2 seconds of that till if falls off and is so far off in it's efficientcy range its mostly hot air. Hard pipes again, nothing just helps spool due to no expansion of charge pipes. (why greeddy? thats $ for pipes) and type-s not needed and doesnt do much for power. Could of went with a cheaper alternative for pipes and bov. RRE sells charges pipes pretty cheap, I personally made mine. A 1g BOV is more than enough, and doing the dodge garage mod will make it hold whatever boost you throw at it.

So with the mods you have, in a perfectly running car, I say your at about 205-210 at the wheels, buts thats bench racing. Just letting you know it's not a perfect world and DSM's weren't rolled out of the factory yesterday. Mods dont "add" power, its not a math problem. Everything works in the system like a symphony and builds upon each other. A 20G with a stock exhaust isn't going to work at its best, nor having a 3" for a stock turbo isnt going to do much. Its like hondas with 3" exhaust with throttle bodies smaller than their manhood.

 

[96gstdsm]

I did not see if it was answered yet or not. But regarding the question is there a big difference with the big 16g.
I did a full install of new 6 bolt engine with cams big 16g fmic and all.
The difference in power between the t25 and the big16g was insane to say the least. At about 15 psi now with a 190 and the cams and all the power feels crazy. I am a ton faster than my friends wrx. I gave him a ride and he nearly shit himself. I also did a quick pull once against a c6 corvette. We were neck and neck to 110(on a closed course)
With the setup you have I think there is no way at the moment you should really be very close to the evo. With the t25 and that boost and your bolt ons you should be around 210 whp but again not really getting into bench racing.
The big16g pulls some much better up top. I have 272 cams so that helps a lot as well, but is still a night and day difference.
First time I turned the boost up on my 16g I was grinning for hours.
You wont regret getting one.

 

[_97tsiawd_]

You are feeling exactly what I was. I have pretty much the same bolt on parts you do ony 97 tsi. basicly what happend with mine is the old stock rod and main barings couldn't handle the power (how many miles are on your engine?) and sarted scoring the crank =( I could feel my talon getting slower and slower untill, wham a bearing went and now i'm replacing the whole damn thing. do yourself a favor and beef up your internals before bolting on any more. BTW A GST? if your gunna go DSM you gotta go AWD baby!! j/k

 

[totaleclipse3]

You guys have really been great thank you for all the great info! I think I am going to sell my 14b and buy a big 16g, get evolink to log (anyone have any experience with this, heard it can log knock on a 2g), buy an apexy safc (for now untill I can afford dsm link) get a 190 fp, some 550 or bigger injectors and try my hand at tunning. I still wish I had someone to help me learn to use the safc but I guess I'll just go for it. I also already have piping for a fmic so Ill probably upgrade that while Im at it.

 

[96gstdsm]

Go with some 650cc injectors instead of the 550's. That way you wont have to worry about getting to the limits for the 550's.

 

[blktalon3]

You will be surprised how big of a difference a turbo swap would make. A 16g or even a 14b at 15 pounds pushes quite a bit more air than a t-25. Your turbo is main thing holding you back right now.

 

[RawrImAMonster]

You guys have really been great thank you for all the great info! I think I am going to sell my 14b and buy a big 16g, get evolink to log (anyone have any experience with this, heard it can log knock on a 2g), buy an apexy safc (for now untill I can afford dsm link) get a 190 fp, some 550 or bigger injectors and try my hand at tunning. I still wish I had someone to help me learn to use the safc but I guess I'll just go for it. I also already have piping for a fmic so Ill probably upgrade that while Im at it.

I'm pretty sure evoscan only works with 98 and 99 cars.