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2G Car can’t hit an idle, crackles and dies.

Posted by Kai Hefner, Sep 16, 2019

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  1. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

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    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    I don’t have a high idle, it’s too low.
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  2. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,541
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    @Cherry maybe you should try reading the post first, right? LOL LOL LOL
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  3. Cherry

    Cherry Proven Member

    198
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    Joined Jun 16, 2019
    Hull, Georgia
    I did, they had asked if the throttle cable could effect their idle, which it can. It can cause a high idle if it is too tight. Too loose then it has no impact on your idle since your throttle plate should be sitting in its proper position.

    That should tell people that if it can cause a high idle and you have a low idle then its most likely not the throttle cable. I havent seen anywhere on this site stating that their throttle cable is making their idle too low. Vacuum leaks can make your idle low, BISS being out of adjustment, timing being off. There are quite a lot that can create an idle issue.
     

    Street Build 308  3

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  4. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

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    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    So BISS is fine. I THINK vacuum is fine. Which leaves timing. Reading about when people have timing skip a tooth or two, their idle is still fine but they have issues when they try and drive the car. This leads me to believe that it’s not timing related but then I have no freaking idea what it could be.
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  5. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,541
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    You must be sure!! :nono:
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
    Loading...
  6. Cherry

    Cherry Proven Member

    198
    52
    Joined Jun 16, 2019
    Hull, Georgia
    You can use some spray to see if there are any vacuum leaks. Starter fluid, carb or throttle body cleaner should be ok, but brake cleaner is corrosive and makes metal parts look like absolute crap. My dad has a vacuum leak on his hemi and when you spray it it raises in idle. Gotta check it all out.
     

    Street Build 308  3

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  7. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Hoover, Alabama
    Also verify that the vacuum lines are hooked up to the proper places
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
    Loading...
  8. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
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    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    That's why I sent a pic of where my vacuum lines where going. With a different intake manifold I can't really be sure but it seems correct.

    Edit: My vacuum lines are set up pretty much the same as this diagram.
    upload_2019-9-24_10-22-22.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  9. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

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    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Just want to add one more thing I totally forgot. I deleted AC and all associated lines. I don't think it would do anything really but might as well be sure. Would that cause any issues?
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  10. Cherry

    Cherry Proven Member

    198
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    Joined Jun 16, 2019
    Hull, Georgia
    AC shouldn't have anything to do with idle. It's an independent system aside from the belt. The intake manifold could not be seated properly and not making a good contact all the way around it. That's what happened with my JM Fab intake manifold.
     

    Street Build 308  3

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  11. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    I have tried taking everything apart, putting it back together, and checking for leaks. I don't think the intake mating is my issue.
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  12. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
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    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    So I think I found the issue. Looking at this I think my timing is off by a tooth. Fyi this engine got replaced in the early 2000s, I thought the timing marks were supposed to line up side-side but I guess this is how it is. Would that cause this issues?
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Proven Member

    1,567
    51
    Joined Nov 17, 2007
    Columbus, Ohio
    Rotate the engine so the cam gears timing marks face eachother in the middle.
     

    Street Build 809  25

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    187 whp · 200 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    The cam gears both rotate counter-clockwise, there is no way they can meet in the middle man.
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  15. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,541
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    @pauleyman yes there is
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
    Loading...
  16. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,236
    1,076
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    You do not have those gears lined up. The dowels must be up. Try again.
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  17. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    sh** my mistake, thought there was only one mark on each cam gear. So my timing is fine?
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  18. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Proven Member

    1,567
    51
    Joined Nov 17, 2007
    Columbus, Ohio
    What do the bottom end timing marks look like?
     

    Street Build 809  25

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    187 whp · 200 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  19. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Not sure, I didn’t want to take the cover off. Can it skip timing down there? Would my symptoms line up with something like that?

    Edit: Do I need a retune with the new intake manifold? I suppose it makes sense that air might be entering my engine at a higher speed or something similar and my stock ecu doesn’t really understand that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  20. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Proven Member

    1,567
    51
    Joined Nov 17, 2007
    Columbus, Ohio
    Have you ever done a timing job before? Or swapped a water pump?
     

    Street Build 809  25

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    187 whp · 200 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,236
    1,076
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    Yes it can skip on the crank.
    At the very least look at the mark on the harmonic balancer. This whole thread started because you installed a manifold? If the car ran fine before you're poking in the wrong area.
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  22. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Nope, neither.
    Yeah man, just the manifold and TB really. I’m pretty sure I ran out of things to check though! I had a buddy come over last night for a part and he wanted to hear the car. I fired her up and when I revved it, this time it made a weird backfiring noise when I revved it up, almost like it was hitting a rev limiter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  23. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Update: I tried changing the plugs because I thought they aligned with my issue. It didn't fix the issue. Atleast I have some new plugs in there because the old ones looked pretty toast.
    I hooked up ECMlink v3, loaded up a base tune, set all my stuff (first time tuning), and I tried to capture data. Well when I cranked the car the capture stopped and the car kinda sputtered. I tried it one more time and the same thing happened, the capture stopped. Is this as simple as a battery problem? I have 0 data from the logs, they didn't read anything before they stopped.
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  24. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,541
    602
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    Hmmmm... How is your battery? Is it old? Test it please. I know that a low or dying or defective battery can make it really hard to start and also mess with the idle.

    I dont believe entirely it would cause your problem, but it is a great think to check!
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
    Loading...
  25. Dreams Realized

    Dreams Realized Proven Member

    96
    57
    Joined Jul 23, 2018
    Seattle, Washington
    Hey Kai, I had a similar issue to you when I got back from Alaska the last time. I checked everything I could possibly think of, I even considered the possibility of water latent fuel being the culprit and siphoned my gas out.

    Finally, being a noob, I gave up and took it into a shop where they found my Ignition Control Module (ICM) was sending too much power to 2 of my spark plugs causing me to have misfires in 2 of my pistons and thus an insanely low idle (like 200-300rpm). I also blew a leak in my turbo oil and coolant return line trying to "fix" the problem myself.

    So I would check the ICM with a multimeter and if you still cannot find the issue, it is okay to take it to a reputable shop. Mine was nice enough to correct other engine bay noob stuff I did wrong for 30 minutes of labor cost.
     

    Street Build 896  4

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.

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