can't find the 95 420a ecu in richmond,va, time to get squirt?

[pazsion]

how do i go about getting one of these? how much will it cost me? is it pre-programed so i can plug and play?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Get one of what? A '95 ECU or a MegaSquirt ECU?

 

[pazsion]

i'm hopeing a replacement ecu in the form of megasquirt xD

i been reading a bit about it some designs are patched in to the oem ecu?

so both? cause i need something that works now, and megasquirt ecu for tweaking. I'd like to get both better mpg, and 300+ hp. certainly a long ways away from that, but a proggy ecu like megasquirt could help alot!

 

[Locke]

Aside from proper maintenance, A MegaSquirt is probably the single most greatest thing you could do to increase HP and/or fuel economy.

The plug-and-play MS ECU may or may not happen. If it does, it won't be for a while.

Here is an article on how to wire it up: 2GNT.com -

SymTech Laboratories: Design, consulting, prototyping, and manufacturing Sells pre-built MegaSquirts for the 420a, and has a collection of basemaps to help get you started on tuning.

Also, see this sticky: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-engine-management/374659-megasquirt-links-new.html It will answer almost all of your questions.

 

[lilrob2069]

I think Jon At dsm Graveyard has one they are different for 95-96 97-99 but you can check with him. Here the link

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

 

[bullettdsm]

they are different for 95-96 97-99 but you can check with him.

No they are not. Did Jon tell you that?

MB

 

[pazsion]

thx guys xD

the symtec prices are absurd.. the msqirt site itself sells the same stuff for much less..it just doesn't tell you what is what, and it comes un-programmed =c and possibly in peices...

$200 is my limit. anything above that and i'm spending other people's xmas money, on my car..again!


I was told by a tech at carquest that the people who make these ecu's no longer makes them..

no one here carries them.. i've found one ecu out of 8 auto parts stores so far..and they are telling me to check the scrap yards =c

it's retarded.. i've never seen more talons eclipses and neons on the road, until this point in time.. and then they deside to stop makeing them =c

someone is not using their marketing brains here, or it's become un able to be built because other parts are no longer made for it..

I've been following MS since it first came out.. those designs were under $200
and they were programmable..

If i go cheap and just get a blank ms, how much bs am i gonna have to go through to get it working? beside finding the right maps/ecu software?

there is a place i see for the old harness to fit into, but does it even follow that wireing? most of what i've seen suggests that, yes you have to tap each of these wires one by one.. to it's corresponding pin.. if you get it wrong and fry it.. oh well thats on you and your out $200 and w/e you fryed along the way...

ms -also has this un programable ecu.. anyone ever used that? is it any less bs or even usable on a 95 talon?

o.0 i'm looking over this 2gnt link you gave me.. hopefully it boosts my confidence in MS being an option xD

dang his ecu is a 4g63 or evo...

the link for the igniter add-on is not working, i'm confused as to why he'd need that?

it helps alot tho.. doesn't seem like too much bs...

 

[Locke]

The SymTech price is competitive with other pre-built MS units. What'd you expect to pay for a stand-alone, fully programmable engine management system? Have you checked the prices of MoTeC, AEM, Haltech, Electromotive, &c...?? Pre-built MS units (from any company) are very affordable in comparison to these.

When you get a kit, you get a blank MS board, and a sack of individual components you must solder on and test. If you are able to do this, great. Do it, it's cheaper. If you burn it up, you're out a unit. The pre-built units are assembled by people who solder all the time, and they are tested. If a pre-built unit does burn up on you due to defect and you installed it properly, you can probably get it replaced for free.*

All MS units are programmable. You may be thinking of the MicroSquirt, which is only available pre-assembled, but is also programmable.


I have no idea who (if anybody) still manufactures factory ECU's. I've never had to buy one. I've heard of companies selling remanufactured factory ECU's, though.

Many older pre-built MS units didn't include igniters. Now they do.

His ECU (from the 2gnt install writeup) is not a 4g63 or evo ECU, that is a MegaSquirt ECU.

*IANAL. See the terms of the sale and any warranty or guarantee info from the seller.

 

[pazsion]

DIYPNP - The Build It Yourself Plug and Play ECU! Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products - DIYAutoTune.com

has pnp kits and complete ecm's but is still way too expensive.. the DIY kits are the same price as the complete ecm's... o.0 the kits should be considerably less... since we have to put it together..


Is there any kinda warranty on these things? If your gonna charge so much, please include a life-time warranty..

How much is a ms-1 and what would i be missing out on by not getting the most up-to-date model?

I also signed up for their (MS) forums, and 24hrs later the account was removed.. saying hotmail deletes the mail.. it did not.. i recieved the confirmation mailing and there were no issues.. oh well i signed up again.. most of the knowledgeable peeps are also members here tho =/

But it should come in handy when i actually get one of these.. i'm sure there are going to be some problems even if i get things hooked up correctly =c

i sent jon an e-mail asking about an oem ecu and ms.

 

[Locke]

You're looking at MicroSquirt PNP kits, which aren't even offered for our vehicle. Also, I wasn't away that MicroSquirts were available as kits. Now I do.

DIYAutoTune sells MS2 kits for $250.

The MS sites have lists of features for each setup. MS2 is better than MS1.

You'll have to talk to the company you're buying the kit or unit from about warranty information. That would be per the company.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

the symtec prices are absurd.. the msqirt site itself sells the same stuff for much less..it just doesn't tell you what is what, and it comes un-programmed =c and possibly in peices...

B&G, the primary developers of MegaSquirt EMS, don't sell direct, so there aren't any prices listed on the official MegaSquirt site. Like Locke said, if you're looking at kits, the prices will understandably be lower because you have to do all the work. I'm a big proponent of DIY, but if you don't know what you're doing and you don't care to learn, you'll save more money in the long run by buying a professionally made ECU.

$200 is my limit. anything above that and i'm spending other people's xmas money, on my car..again!

You have to understand that this is an unrealistically low budget. Again, as Locke said, similar engine controllers from AEM, Electromotive, etc. cost well over $1,000. You could purchase a v2.2/MS1 kit and wire harness bundle for right around $200, but you'll have to assemble (i.e. solder) everything together yourself, and both the v2.2 board and MS1 processor are extremely outdated. The v2.2/MS1 combination is rapidly losing support; it's too dissimilar to the newer versions.

I recommend the v3.0 board and MS2 processor at a minimum. It's an incredibly solid platform that will be supported for a long time. MS2 and MS3 are similar enough that much of the code is compatible, so new firmware features in the MS3 code are constantly being back-ported to the MS2 code.

I've been following MS since it first came out.. those designs were under $200 and they were programmable..

All iterations of MegaSquirt ECU's are programmable, that's their point. The cost may have risen a little, but they've gotten increasingly more powerful and yet more user-friendly at the same time.

If i go cheap and just get a blank ms, how much bs am i gonna have to go through to get it working? beside finding the right maps/ecu software?

That depends on what you call "BS." Like I said, you'll have to assemble everything yourself. If you don't know anything about electronics assembly and you don't want to invest the time to learn, it'll be a nightmare. It's not terribly difficult, but it will take you a good 12 to 18 hours if you're new to it all.

there is a place i see for the old harness to fit into, but does it even follow that wireing? most of what i've seen suggests that, yes you have to tap each of these wires one by one.. to it's corresponding pin.. if you get it wrong and fry it.. oh well thats on you and your out $200 and w/e you fryed along the way...

That's the name of the game. There's some inherent risk, but the wiring is probably the least complicated part if you're considering building your own. Nobody currently makes a programmable plug-and-play ECU.

ms -also has this un programable ecu.. anyone ever used that? is it any less bs or even usable on a 95 talon?

You'll have to post a link of whatever you saw. All MegaSquirt ECU's are programmable.

the link for the igniter add-on is not working, i'm confused as to why he'd need that?

Like Locke said, most ECU's use internal ignitors now; there's no need to use external (e.g. 4G63 ignitors, HEI ignitors, etc.) ignitors anymore.

---

has pnp kits and complete ecm's but is still way too expensive.. the DIY kits are the same price as the complete ecm's... o.0 the kits should be considerably less... since we have to put it together..

Those kits still require assembly (i.e. soldering), and there isn't currently a model for the 420A.

Is there any kinda warranty on these things? If your gonna charge so much, please include a life-time warranty..

There aren't really any warranties on a kit, you're responsible for doing everything correctly. Most MegaSquirt vendors do have warranties on pre-assembled ECU's, however.

How much is a ms-1 and what would i be missing out on by not getting the most up-to-date model?

I gave you a rough estimate for a barebones kit above. You can see what the newer models have to offer here:

http://msextra.com/feature-xref.html

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Also, I wasn't away that MicroSquirts were available as kits. Now I do.

They're still not available as kits. The DIYAutoTune DIYPNP kits use the Microsquirt module, which is an incomplete EMS designed to be used in OEM applications.

 

[lilrob2069]

No they are not. Did Jon tell you that?

MB

No when i worked there we shipped a guy an ecu out of a 97-99 or visa versa, all i know was we had on, all of us thought they were the same but when we sent him it, it was the wrong one. So we asked mitsu and was told that they r different. Thats all i know.

 

[bullettdsm]

No when i worked there we shipped a guy an ecu out of a 97-99 or visa versa, all i know was we had on, all of us thought they were the same but when we sent him it, it was the wrong one. So we asked mitsu and was told that they r different. Thats all i know.

Ah, gotcha. You were referencing stock ECU's. Yeah, the ECU's are all different (just to confuse the crap out of everyone). But the 98 and 99 seem to be interchangeable on some level. People have switched these out and used them with no drawbacks. BUT, I would be leary of that because I have seen a difference in the 98 year model ECU. I had an early year 98 that would do the "key dance". I now have a later year 98 that won't. So there are some obvious differences.

Hmm, looks like I posted a little more than I intended

MB

 

[90moneypit]

1995 Dodge Avenger Eclipse talon 420a ecu 5269658 - eBay (item 120642433141 end time Dec-02-10 16:53:10 PST)

for an automatic, I don't know if you have an auto or stick (you didn't say and neither does your profile) or if an auto will work in a manual car. Either way, if you need one for an auto that one is $55.24 and free shipping. You might want to search a little more if money is tight and you need a manual tranny ecu. There's a couple different graveyards here on tuners that might have what you're looking for as well.

 

[pazsion]

xD yea thanks again xD

I'm certainly not experienced enough at soldering to confidently peice a unit together.. but that seems to be my only option.. i'll just have to get a guide to show me in detail and photos what goes where if a manual or instructions are not already included..I've seen wiring diagrams on multiple sites and threads, but there is no way to tell if that is for my 420a manual..

I have run 3-5 diffrent ecu's in this car. 3 diffrent type 95-96 esi ( there are some 96 ecu's that have the old harness plug-in but most don't) models rangeing from non emissions to cali to federal.. and then a turbo.. which is the one i bought with the car labeled 5269656, another one was upgraded or flashed by a toyota dealership xD which no longer exists haha. The ecu i told people i needed..my dad may have already bought one. is the turbo or tsi version.. and it worked.. i've run it for over 3 years with no issues. aside from a little less mpg.. until i burned it out =c

I will look for a complete MS kit for $250 or less. and grab some solder.. this is something my brother has alot of expereince with as well.. i hope i can work with him on it.. but we usually don't work well together.

also does the ms have it's own voltage regulater? i have 2 ecu's that work fine, but i'd have to jerry rig a 12v voltage regulator, i have an old rusty one from a ford tractor that i have used successfully..

But if the ms's have this, i could use an old ecu, to patch into to test things out.. and it would work fine if everything else does. I'm thinking here that i have to have a working oem ecu in place already.. and that an ms by itself will not work?

Or is that completely wrong, and what i'm seeing in these guides is people simply patching into the old wireing harness?? and no oem ecu?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I'm certainly not experienced enough at soldering to confidently peice a unit together.. but that seems to be my only option.. i'll just have to get a guide to show me in detail and photos what goes where if a manual or instructions are not already included..I've seen wiring diagrams on multiple sites and threads, but there is no way to tell if that is for my 420a manual..

I will look for a complete MS kit for $250 or less. and grab some solder.. this is something my brother has alot of expereince with as well.. i hope i can work with him on it.. but we usually don't work well together.

Good luck. I certainly don't think building a MegaSquirt ECU is your only option, though.

also does the ms have it's own voltage regulater? i have 2 ecu's that work fine, but i'd have to jerry rig a 12v voltage regulator, i have an old rusty one from a ford tractor that i have used successfully..

No, but you can use part number VR-125 from an '86-'88 Dodge Omni. They're only about $20 to $40 from your local parts store.

But if the ms's have this, i could use an old ecu, to patch into to test things out.. and it would work fine if everything else does. I'm thinking here that i have to have a working oem ecu in place already.. and that an ms by itself will not work?

Or is that completely wrong, and what i'm seeing in these guides is people simply patching into the old wireing harness?? and no oem ecu?

You can install the MegaSquirt ECU without totally removing the stock ECU; this is called a "parallel installation." You can usually install a MegaSquirt ECU in place of the stock ECU too, this is typically called a "complete installation." If you're intent on using the older hardware, though, your MegaSquirt ECU may not be 100% capable of running the car by itself.

 

[bullettdsm]

xD yea thanks again xD

I have run 3-5 diffrent ecu's in this car. 3 diffrent type 95-96 esi ( there are some 96 ecu's that have the old harness plug-in but most don't) models rangeing from non emissions to cali to federal.. and then a turbo.. which is the one i bought with the car labeled 5269656, another one was upgraded or flashed by a toyota dealership xD which no longer exists haha. The ecu i told people i needed..my dad may have already bought one. is the turbo or tsi version.. and it worked.. i've run it for over 3 years with no issues. aside from a little less mpg.. until i burned it out =c
?

For those people that are following along and think they can use a turbo ecu with our cars, the answer is an absolute and unequivocal NO. Unless you want to totally re-wire and re-sensor (and more) the vehicle. It does not fit, it does not match up to our sensors, it does not read the same information, it does not plug in to our wiring harness...etc.

No you didn't run the turbo ECU in your 420a for three years until in burnt out. No.

........patience.....running .....slim.......

MB

 

[pazsion]

For those people that are following along and think they can use a turbo ecu with our cars, the answer is an absolute and unequivocal NO. Unless you want to totally re-wire and re-sensor (and more) the vehicle. It does not fit, it does not match up to our sensors, it does not read the same information, it does not plug in to our wiring harness...etc.

No you didn't run the turbo ECU in your 420a for three years until in burnt out. No.

........patience.....running .....slim.......

MB

xD ok then the auto stores all over america labeled their parts wrong and the ecu as well..

i'm looking at it right now.. and this is the ecu i've been running xD

it must be a turbo motor with the turbo removed, then.. but wait.. it's a 420a..

i dunno dude it just works.. I don't see any speacial wireing or diffrent sensors.. not sure what kinda computer is under my center console tho..

but based on this experience, anything that fits, runs..

although there are certain turbo ecu's that do not have a v-reg..and rely on it being on the alternater itself..

I'm starting to wonder if the same is true with other compatable's like pt crusier, sebring,avenger, and neon's

it could just be an extreamly convenient, glitch, tho. Mr bullet, have you tried this yourself?

 

[Locke]

He hasn't tried to run a turbo ECU on his 420a because the ECU won't bolt up, won't plug up, and wouldn't run if he wired it up. 4g63 uses MAF to measure air, 420a uses speed density. Aside from the other hundreds of differences, this big one alone would prevent it from functioning.

 

[pazsion]

oh yea...sorry man, forgot..

yea the 4g63's won't let you do this.. they are quite picky...



also, i been thinking about the "competitve priceing" idea... since no one else has a programmable buildable kit... your not competeing with the plug and plays.. since it's modular, and you can add on to it.. perhaps w/e you like.. it's really in a class of its own.. but affordability sometimes makes more money, because you sell more of it.. vs more expensive..

also not sure how much it is to manufacture, or just the total of it's parts.. but i'm sure some of these guys are putting a 200% mark-up on it..even more so once they found out no one makes oem ecu's anymore.. that i know of at this time..

I know you guys want your money... but if there is any way to lower the prices.. or offer a cheaper, maybe non-programmable version, that just works..please do so.. one thing that usually lowers prices in time is when there is more support and people buying it.. or more supply then demand... often when something first comes out, the prices are high to make back what was spent to make and research /troubleshoot it... and in time the price drops.. i hope this is the case with MS

those other guys have been out for a long time now...yet their prices have not dropped.. possibly because they feel no one else has a better product that costs less? yet it probably cost them less then $100 to make them now.



either way whenever i buy one i hope i'm helping bring down the price and not encourage eyeball gougeing.. and lint picking..
xD

 

[VelocitàPaola]

oh yea...sorry man, forgot..

yea the 4g63's won't let you do this.. they are quite picky...



also, i been thinking about the "competitve priceing" idea... since no one else has a programmable buildable kit... your not competeing with the plug and plays.. since it's modular, and you can add on to it.. perhaps w/e you like.. it's really in a class of its own.. but affordability sometimes makes more money, because you sell more of it.. vs more expensive..

also not sure how much it is to manufacture, or just the total of it's parts.. but i'm sure some of these guys are putting a 200% mark-up on it..even more so once they found out no one makes oem ecu's anymore.. that i know of at this time..

I know you guys want your money... but if there is any way to lower the prices.. or offer a cheaper, maybe non-programmable version, that just works..please do so.. one thing that usually lowers prices in time is when there is more support and people buying it.. or more supply then demand... often when something first comes out, the prices are high to make back what was spent to make and research /troubleshoot it... and in time the price drops.. i hope this is the case with MS

those other guys have been out for a long time now...yet their prices have not dropped.. possibly because they feel no one else has a better product that costs less? yet it probably cost them less then $100 to make them now.



either way whenever i buy one i hope i'm helping bring down the price and not encourage eyeball gougeing.. and lint picking..
xD

You're getting too far off-topic, but I do have two things to say in response:

1. MegaSquirt EMS costs half as much as most comparable engine management systems.
2. There will never be a cheaper version that isn't programmable. The user configurability is the whole point.

It sounds like a.) you're cheap, and b.) you don't particularly care about any of the features MS offers. If that's the case, just buy a new or remanufactured OEM ECU and stop whining about the price of a MegaSquirt system. There are tons of used ECU's for sale in the DSMtuners classifieds, the 2GNT classifieds, and on eBay. The last I heard, Mitsubishi was still selling remanufactured ECU's for around $260.

 

[pazsion]

why is it when i make a 420a thread, people post replies relevent to other engines?

my dad bought a turbo ecu, and it runs the car.. now to get this dang pulley off so i can fix the timing...then i could make some money and start saving for an ms..

i'm not cheap, i'm not rich..but i want a ms.. o.0

At the time i posted this i had some money but not alot, and didnt want anyone else to fund more parts for me.. but they did anyway...and we went without food for about 3 days =c
atleast the baby was fed.. my friend brought home some food..someone he knows has a farm xD and another guy hunts.. best food ever xD i want more but will have to wait till next year's harvest and seasons..


i was really hopeing someone would reply saying they could sell me, a used unit..here's the classified links.. or send me $x.xx but that never happened, and i never found one searching myself..

thx and kudos to those that posted relevent info, links and opinions.. it has been very helpful in learning more about ms. And compells me to buy one, having helpful people to assit me.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

i was really hopeing someone would reply saying they could sell me, a used unit..here's the classified links.. or send me $x.xx but that never happened, and i never found one searching myself..

Nobody will reply in that way because it's explicitly against the rules here.

It seems like you already know where to look to find what you're looking for, but just in case...

DSM Classifieds
2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topics in 2GNT Buy / Sell / Trade (BST)
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

 

[CODE4]

i was really hopeing someone would reply saying they could sell me, a used unit..here's the classified links.. or send me $x.xx but that never happened, and i never found one searching myself..

Are you serious? You seriously expected someone to donate to your cause?