cam gears not aligning

[victor_reznof]

Good Evening everybody.
This is my first ever post on DSMtuners so please be nice
I am a new Zealander in australia I have a mitsubishi lancer evo3
I have purchased a 6 bolt engine and am having a mechanic install it. while it was out of the car I asked him to put a new cambelt on and replace the water pump. I have attached two photos to show my problem. the teeth are not aligned at all he discovered this when he removed the cambelt cover. is this usual for an engine that has done 80thousand kilometres.
any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you

 

[Brandon Mau]

That is wrong in every which way. The camshaft dowel pins should be at the 12 o'clock position for the intake and exhaust camshafts. The first picture you posted shows the alignment marks not equal with the cylinder head they are both off 4-5 teeth. With the camshaft dowel pins both at the 12 o'clock position you should be able to take a something that is long and straight, align it with the cylinder head and the camshaft timing marks should be straight with the cylinder head. 80,000 km is close to 60,000 miles which the timing belt should be changed. So looking at these pictures someone changed the timing belt and assembled incorrectly or the timing belt tensioner failed and your cam gears skipped some teeth and valves smacked the pistons. While you have the motor out you might want to just go ahead and pull the cylinder head to check for damage to the valves, pistons and head.

 

[Boostdriven]

No that is not usual or normal, whoever installed that timing belt before you got the engine did a really poor job. It is also possible that they did not set the timing belt tensioner correctly and the belt has skilled few teeth. Looking at that picture you posted, with the cams sitting the way they are if the crank pulley mark lines up with the mark on the oil pump casing then your valves should be fine. It looks like the intake cam is retarded 2 teeth and exhaust cam is advanced 2 teeth. That engine probably ran ok the way it is but I imagine it would of pulled a lot of vacuum at idle and had no top end power because with cams sitting like that there would be no valve overlap.

What you should do is set the timing belt up correctly with all the marks lining up properly, pull all the spark plugs and use an air compressor to put pressure in each cylinder to verify that the valves are ok. It would suck to put the engine in the car just to find out later that you have bent valves. My guess that they are fine but for a peace of mind I would check. You will have to rotate the engine by hand to check each cylinder to make sure that both intake and exhaust valves are closed when you put pressure in the cylinder. The easiest way to tell if the valves are close is to pull your valve cover and look at the cam lobs on each cylinder. Both cam lobs (intake/exhaust) should be off the rocker arms. With all the timing marks lining up properly #1 cylinder should be up on a compression stroke so you can start with that one and then move on to the next one. If you turn the crank 180 degrees each time you should be able to check cylinder 1-3-4-2 in that order. If the valves are bent the pressure will escape very quickly through bent valves and you will hear air coming out through either intake or exhaust side of the head. If the valves are good the pressure will drop regardless because of the piston ring gap but it should be a slow drop. Good luck

 

[victor_reznof]

Ok I have a rough idea what you guys are talking about. How likely is it that there will be valve damage?

 

[Brandon Mau]

Do the compression test. Or pull the head to visually inspect.

 

[victor_reznof]

Ok will get the mechanic to try that today thanks heaps

 

[Dsmkauai]

You need to have the cam dowels pointing straight up 12o'clock!! Forget the other marks that are there they are wrong and shouldn't even be there. In fact take some brake clean and a rag and wipe it off. Only use the correct marks on the cam gears that are notched and white. Your correct marks are two teeth under the wrong marks at about 3o'clock! You also need to look at the crank timing mark and that you are on tdc on the number 1 cylinder! http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/182787-how-change-your-timing-belt.html, [ame]http://youtu.be/7VIubwSxytk[/ame]

 

[Eckzavier]

I was actually going to post that exact video. OP, you should have all the info you need now!

 

[victor_reznof]

Thanks guys been a huge help. The mechanic has lined it all up correctly and thinks compression is good will know 100% this afternoon when he cranks the engine over. That's a very helpful video thanks again.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Gotta be someone else that knows these engines around you! I think you need to spend some more time researching for a better mechanic before you hand your car over to just anyone! This could have ended badly for you, hoping it still ok and theres nothing damaged. That belt is the heart of your motor bro!

 

[92awddsm]

Gotta be someone else that knows these engines around you! I think you need to spend some more time researching for a better mechanic before you hand your car over to just anyone! This could have ended badly for you, hoping it still ok and theres nothing damaged. That belt is the heart of your motor bro!

I think you need to reread before bashing his mechanic. That is how the mechanic found it when he removed the timing cover. He didn't do that himself. Hence why it was posted and questioned on here.

 

[Dsmkauai]

No ones bashing anyone just saying if he can't align the cam and crank marks up properly on his own and not be thrown off by someone's weird getto alignment marks. Than maybe it be wise to stay away from this type of work and stick to changing oil and headlights! Before screwing someone's engine up for good! Anyone can google 4g63 timing marks and have the right answer in 5sec on the proper marks to look for! Don't see what's so wrong about saying that guy!

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

No ones bashing anyone just saying if he can't align the cam and crank marks up properly on his own and not be throw off by someone's weird getto alignments marks. Than maybe it be wise to stay away from this type of work and stick to changing oil and headlights! Before screwing someone's engine up for good!

Your going off someone else's word though. Second hand speech. You don't know anything about the mechanic. He may know just want to do. Some ppl are just paranoid and still post questions no matter who has their car bro.

 

[92awddsm]

No ones bashing anyone just saying if he can't align the cam and crank marks up properly on his own and not be throw off by someone's weird getto alignments marks. Than maybe it be wise to stay away from this type of work and stick to changing oil and headlights! Before screwing someone's engine up for good!

I have attached two photos to show my problem. the teeth are not aligned at all he discovered this when he removed the cambelt cover.

Then the original poster asked for his own knowledge if this was normal. The mechanic knew it was an issue to begin with. If not, he never would have said anything. Just replaced the belt as it was.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Yes but they are not aligned because he's not following the correct marks dude!! You can see In the picture he's following someone else's white marks, from when they obviously took the belt off the wrong way and out of time! If he would crank the motor alittle and get the right marks lined up he wouldn't have had to post! Not sure how your missing that! Cam dowels arnt even at 12o'clock, notches on cams arnt together! But hmm he has 4 other white marks perfectly aligned for some reason we shall never know!!! Come on dude!!

 

[92awddsm]

Yes but they are not aligned because he's not following the correct marks dude!! You can see In the picture he's following someone else's white marks, from when they obviously took the belt off the wrong way and out of time! If he would crank the motor alittle and get the right marks lined up he wouldn't have had to post! Not sure how your missing that! Cam dowels arnt even at 12o'clock, notches on cams arnt together! But hmm he has 4 other white marks perfectly aligned for some reason we shall never know!!! Come on dude!!

What you are missing is the mechanic hasn't even pulled the belt off yet. He pulled the cover and put his own marks on there with white out just like any smart mechanic does. Those pics were taken before the old belt was ever removed. The reason for the mechanic putting his on marks on there was in case there was an issue after he put it back together correctly. Then he could prove it was incorrect before he ever removed it.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Your going off someone else's word though. Second hand speech. You don't know anything about the mechanic. He may know just want to do. Some ppl are just paranoid and still post questions no matter who has their car bro.

Whatever man! Doesn't look that way to me and I stand by my statement! Go take your car to him then ! I'm good! Quit trying to argue with me guys! Just trying to help the o.p. out that's all! Everyone and there brother thinks there a mechanic these days because they changed there own brakes or had 2 years of school at some lame community collage !! Or better yet watched a ton of YouTube videos and now they think they got it and can do it all!! OL

 

[92awddsm]

Whatever man! Doesn't look that way to me and I stand by my statement! Go take your car to him then ! I'm good!

Being a mechanic myself, I would have put my own marks on the too before pulling it apart. But I guess I don't know what I'm doing either... Smh

 

[Dsmkauai]

ok guy that makes absolutely no sense but you roll with it wiseman! You would have put your own marks not having the timing aligned correctly and not even in the right places to make sense?? Ya ok you arnt allowed to touch my cars !! I understand I do it to when needed but I would only make marks when its in time guys! Your supposed to align all the timing marks before you take the belt off if you didn't know, kind of the whole purpose!! Why the hell would you make marks with the timing off like that? Answer that?? Just shows they don't really know what there doing on this motor that's all!! And the o.p. actually doesn't say who put the other white marks there. He just says they can't get the marks right. And if you ask me its because they are using 4 wrong marks and that's confusing them!!

 

[92awddsm]

ok guy that makes absolutely no sense but you roll with it wiseman! You would have put your own marks not having the timing aligned correctly and not even in the right places to make sense?? Ya ok you arnt allowed to touch my cars !!

Are you paying attention at all? Those pics were taken before the old belt was removed. Those marks were made before the old belt was removed. The new belt has been installed and the timing was corrected. Keep smacking yourself in the head like that and you will make yourself more dumb than you already are.

 

[DSM1G90]

I read the OP's first post and fully understood what he said about the misaligned marks:

This is what the mechanic found when the cover came off and he rolled the system to TDC.

Mechanic was covering his heinie with showing the OP on what he found.

Just the previous owner, either did the belt wrong, had it done and was installed wrong, or as mentioned being the belt could have slipped and jumped some teeth, yet not damaging the motor with a slightly off-time cam timing.

Don't question a wiseman - he got his rep points from the knowledge he gained and has earned it well.

DSM

 

[92awddsm]

I read the OP's first post and fully understood what he said about the misaligned marks:

This is what the mechanic found when the cover came off and he rolled the system to TDC.

Mechanic was covering his heinie with showing the OP on what he found.

Just the previous owner, either did the belt wrong, had it done and was installed wrong, or as mentioned being the belt could have slipped and jumped some teeth, yet not damaging the motor with a slightly off-time cam timing.

Don't question a wiseman - he got his rep points from the knowledge he gained and has earned it well.

DSM

You must have read the same thing I did. It's pretty simple to understand and make sense of if you read it all, isn't it? I hope it isn't just me. And thank you. I do everything I can to be correct in every statement I make. I don't make it a point to argue unless it comes to that in the process of correcting misinformation.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Ya sure!! And all that happen boost driven broke it down and I posted a video clearly showing the correct timing marks to use! Duh!! And I perfectly understand his pic is from before they did the belt. Will you please stop this nonsense! Your the one missing the big picture not me!

Good Evening everybody.
This is my first ever post on DSMtuners so please be nice
I am a new Zealander in australia I have a mitsubishi lancer evo3
I have purchased a 6 bolt engine and am having a mechanic install it. while it was out of the car I asked him to put a new cambelt on and replace the water pump. I have attached two photos to show my problem. "the teeth are not aligned at all he discovered this when he removed the cambelt cover." is this usual for an engine that has done 80thousand kilometres.
any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you

I read it completely to and sorry if I understand it diff. All the o.p. said is mechanic pulled cam cover and the teeth are not aligned at all!! Hmm because he is trying to do it by 4 wrong marks!! He didn't say anything about the mechanic rolling the system to tdc!! Which is why the first to posters explained exactly what I did!! So why arnt you hounding those guys!! Give it a rest already damn!!

 

[DSM1G90]

I'm just guessing that he rolled it to TDC (and true, the OP didn't post it..) so he can get all marks aligned before any belt removal occurs - what I do when I get ready to do a belt .. is roll the crank to TDC.

..a common mechanic's habit in doing a belt.

Guess, some doesn't do this procedure when doing a belt.

 

[92awddsm]

Ya sure!! And all that happen boost driven broke it down and I posted a video clearly showing the correct timing marks to use! Duh!! And I perfectly understand his pic is from before they did the belt. Will you please stop this nonsense! Your the one missing the big picture not me!



I read it completely to and sorry if I understand it diff. All the o.p. said is mechanic pulled cam cover and the teeth are not aligned at all!! Hmm because he is trying to do it by 4 wrong marks!! Which is why the first to posters explained exactly what I did!! So why arnt you hounding those guys!! Give it a rest already damn!!

He is a mechanic. If reputable, he would roll it to TDC before starting. That's how you are supposed to do and ohc vehicle. That is something that is left unsaid.

Let me ask you this. Do you really think the mechanic is going pull the old belt off, set it beside the other, and transfer his marks to the new belt so he can put it back on the same way? That would be a no one that. Any good mechanic does that for reference in case there is a problem. What you need to do is read what the op writes, and nothing else. Then you will see things clearly. Instead, you jumped on the bandwagon with others and sat here and told me I was wrong. I guess you need goggles to see through the bs. I didn't Hound you on anything. You kept on and on making yourself look like an idiot.