1G Cam angle sensor set up?

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

I have a 1990 Eagle Talon AWD turbo 4G63, I had the chrysler mechanics do a head gasket because it was too cold to do myself in winter. I guess the Mechanic put the cam angle sensor in backwards(wires down) I need the proper cam angle sensor setup and timing.

1. If somebody could take a pic of the cam angle sensor on the inside with cover off (of the disc with the grooves in it) when the engine is TDC of power stroke for #1 piston of their cam angle sensor and post it I would be eternally grateful.

2. Also just want to double check my timing with you guys from my Haynes manual. What wire do I ground out on coil packs to set the timing, cam gear? If I run 12 psi boost, then pump it up to 30-40 psi do I have to retard the timing so I don't get pre-detonation?

The mechanic that did my car said he went through all the sensors, I have no idea what he did to it? He did a rush job, the bracket from cam angle to throttle body was overtop the cam, crank sensor on an angle too, have a leak in my turbo oil outlet line and who knows what else.

3. Also, my engine is still stock, on the top of the throttle body there are two 1/4" vac lines, one is black hose with green dotted line (on top rear of throttle body towards back of car) and the other hose is a black hose with red dotted line (on top front of throttle body) Is this right?

 

[Phantom DSM]

In the CAS pic, the two notches must align this way, if its 180 degrees off the motor wont run. It's then installed with Motor at TDC. Also , i highly recommend setting ignition advance to 5 degrees BTDC per the FSM.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The vacuum routing i found shows all four nipples at top but the 90 DSM Throttle Body has 2 on side and 2 on top. Red is for charcoal canister and yellow and green are for EGR i believe.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

For question 2 you are talking about ignition timing right?

If so and you have a timing light gun, you have to ground the timing adjust connector on the firewall, and adjust the CAS until it is 5 degrees BTDC, looking at the numbers on lower timing cover.

Check this out Engine Timing or this link without lower timing cover http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-timing-without-using-lower-timing-cover.html

 

[synthetek]

The wires are supposed to be down on the 90 cam angle sensor (The one with attached wires)

 

[91talon91]

DSM VFAQ

 

[Phantom DSM]

The wires are supposed to be down on the 90 cam angle sensor (The one with attached wires)

I couldn't find a pic of the 90 CAS installed, but i figured he could line it up with the groove in a similar manner

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

Your probably right, when I look at used Mitsubishi 4G63 engines the sensor looks like wires down. My Haynes manual picture looks like wires up, and I remember the wires were up when I got the car. I remember thinking oil and water could just drip right in there, was even going to put a piece of tape on it. After the shop put the head gasket in, the wires are now down installed in the car.

My buddy in college I bought it off of, his friend was into tuning talons, he dragged his at the track. He chipped the car and I think tuned it for him, he might of switched it upside down, or the inside wheel might of shifted, I just want to make sure the sensor is set up right.

It is possible to install the sensor either way as long a you change the disc the sensor reads in the front.

I just want to know if my sensor is set up right and which way to install it?

This what the inside looks like with the cam on the mark in the back - profile pic PART#

T1T49071
9403

I want to know was the wheel on the inside changed?
What's the proper setting?

I pulled the valve cover today and found antifreeze in the cam section of the head, I also have antifreeze coming out my turbo actuator vac line, I think the vacs are crossed. I have 2 vac lines that feed out to 4 vac lines by the thermostat, anybody have a pic of the routing for them?

I got it going but wouldn't idle and stalled out on me going for a test drive, had to push start it to get her home, timing might be at a default setting, pings at high rpm too.

I can only upload 2 photos (probationary Member)
You can see the two vac hoses I'm talking about on the top of the throttle body, green dotted is in back, red dotted is in front, and you can see one of the 2 hoses on the side.

Thanks for the pics phantom, thanks for the help Guys.
Got it phantom 5 degrees advance BTDC

 

[Phantom DSM]

The CAS on a 90 is different than 91-94 cars, being the actual harness wire is attached coming out of the CAS on yours.

If the groove and dial are not aligned then motor wouldn't start. I have never opened the cover to see the outside. There is an O-ring inside before the CAS goes in, usually oil will leak past that o ring. You can replace it.

Once the motor is running and the timing check connector on firewall is grounded, then you can rotate the CAS back and forth to get to 5 degrees BTDC. You can follow the links referenced above with a timing light. Make sure your idle is proper as well .

 

[synthetek]

1. I just want to make sure the wheel on the inside of the CAS is properly aligned <------------PROFILE PIC.

Have you taken out the trigger wheel inside? Why do you think its misaligned?

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

Because it was initially installed wires up when I got the car. Now after the Chrysler mechanics had it at the shop it's wires down, which might be the way 91-94 cars are but I think the 90's are wires up. Which is why I think it won't idle. I had it at a different shop and because my idle was just starting to stall out, really low 500 rpm, they adjusted the CAS, said it was dirty and they just cleaned it up, idle improved.

And when I look at my Haynes manual - Crankshaft position sensor section 6-19, diagram 4.75 it looks like the connector is on top.

For timing my Haynes manual says to ground terminal #10 on the diagnostic connector under the drivers side of the dash (third one down on left side), this cancels the computers control adjustments to the timing so you can set your base timing.

The idle adjust screw is on the throttle body front, just in front of my 2 vac lines on top, out to raise, in to lower rpm 2.0L, think they must of been messing with me.

no I never took out the wheel, just checking it, I'll just set timing by ear, turn dial, then set with light.

My vac lines are totally screwed, California car, off with the intake, need to port and polish that thing anyway

I'm never bringing anything to Dodge ever again, I'm gonna freak, like honestly, i shouldn't have to fix it twice. I'm missing parts now too, my intake manifold stay is missing.

 

[synthetek]

The connector goes up on the 91-94 black top & green top CAS with the connector, the wires point down on the 90 green top CAS with attached wires.

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

It can go up or down if you flip the back syn,

wires up - notch to mark

wires up - notch side spun to other side of mark

wires down - notch side spun to other side of mark

wires down - notch to mark in back

I'll figure it out, I took a look at the schematic, the 4 short gaps are the cam position of your firing order, think the crank is the inside marks, one long an one short - must be oiling injection for TDC and BDC. It won't start in the 180 position because of the knock sensor.

Figured out the coolant problem too, the throttle body intercooler is the tubes on top, the tubes towards the front are air. Have to switch them, thats why I'm getting coolant in my intake, 13 psi worth

 

[synthetek]

It can go up or down if you flip the back syn,

If you install it upside down (wires up) then you would have to run it 180 out for it to run correctly.

If you install it the correct way (wires down) the you line up the notch and mark on the CAS and install it with the dowel pin on the cam at 12 o'clock, then ground the timing adjustment pin, set timing with timing light.

I'll figure it out, I took a look at the schematic, the 4 short gaps are the cam position of your firing order, think the crank is the inside marks, one long an one short - must be oiling injection for TDC and BDC. It won't start in the 180 position because of the knock sensor.

The 4 outer marks are crank position, the 2 inner marks are cam position.

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

I got it figured out, thanks y'all, hmm different stock part #'s, guess I'll be seein ya on the track

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

Was stock 9403 and 9320 ignition module, totally

If you run those #'s you'll find the a hole that stole my shite

 

[Grose1]

I got it figured out, thanks y'all, hmm different stock part #'s, guess I'll be seein ya on the track

Hey May! I was trying to find this picture for a long time. Is this the correct setup? Is this installed correctly?

Many thanks

 

[steve]

Setup How?
Is the Trigger Disk correct? I think so based on other pictures and the 1990 DTM.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Are the wires on a 90 CAS intended to go on the Bottom? Yes, the 91-94 CAS Connector goes on top. Notice the difference in the body casting between the second and third pictures.

 

[Grose1]

Thanks a lot Steve! I was trying to find this info so long ago! My CAS I giving 5v on crank angle sensor and 0.2v on TDC! this is something I need to search for

 

[steve]

Remember that the CAS isn't giving a voltage. The ECU supplies it, and the CAS holds the signal line low until each time the opening passes in front of the LED. (On the green top optical versions. The black top version use Hall Sensors.)

You can see this switching on a multimeter if you rotate the CAS by hand or with an Oscilloscope at higher RPMs. Trying to measure with a multimeter at starter or running engine speeds will just give an average DC voltage from the pulses.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

(I need to double check the signal levels again, it's been too long since I last looked. Waveform used without permission from RRE website)

 

[Grose1]

Steve, I've just measured mine and gave me 5v with the ignition on Everytime the light passes through the holes. The manual page you also provided is giving that information so I assume mine is ok

 

[Grose1]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[waltah]

Ho-lee-shirt this is good info. 'Course a 2g is probably not the same but this is good to know anyway. They basically sawed off the bottom layer of the distributors in other Mitsu's of those years. But those distributors are Hall effect and you cannot flip the disk.

I donno about oscilloscopes with a black trace. I bet your phone doesn't have a crank on the side either.

 

[Grose1]

Ho-lee-shirt this is good info. 'Course a 2g is probably not the same but this is good to know anyway. They basically sawed off the bottom layer of the distributors in other Mitsu's of those years. But those distributors are Hall effect and you cannot flip the disk.

I donno about oscilloscopes with a black trace. I bet your phone doesn't have a crank on the side either.

However, I can only get my engine running with the disk inside the CAS flipped, which is quite peculiar. It only runs 2-3 seconds, but seems so much better than with the CAS times with the engine, correct disk side and pops and bangs coming from the intake.

 

[steve]

I'm surprised it runs at all with the MAF not connected to the Intake and the crank vent wide open.

 

[Grose1]

I'm surprised it runs at all with the MAF not connected to the Intake and the crank vent wide open.

But it runs with the disk inverted and not with the correct position.
With everything set correctly, the engine runs really rough, it doesn't makes sense. I will try all positions - CAS and disk correct / CAS correct, disk inverted / CAS inverted and disk inverted / CAS inverted and disk correct... Nothing makes sense on my engine

 

[Mech Addict]

Well I just started reading this whole post, and went and took a photo of my 90 gsx CAS. I won’t say it’s timed perfectly, but it seemed to run fine like this.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.