Building a 6 bolt ?

[Boost Freak 3]

Okay ive been doing some reading a searching but I have some qusitons to ask. These might be dumb but im learning so please go along with me. First im going to swap a 6 bolt into a 2nd gen and I want to know if i should go with a after market internals or 1g big rods and 2g pistons. Would it be cheaper to just do the 1g rods and 1g pistons or go with wiesco pistons and would they fit together? Second can u get the 1g rods a cleaning so that they would last longer. Last is the swap very hard beacuse im experinced but at the same time really not. My goals are about 350 im going to run a evo 16g or at the most an 18g with the basic bolt ons to run the setups. Thank you for the help.

 

[brute]

It's good you have goals set out. With them in mind, I'd suggest the 2g pistons on the 1g big rods option. Those should be just what you need, without being overkill and without being a huge hit in the wallet. You can get the rods shotpeened, which is supposed to highten the strength of the rods. You might also want to look at cryogenic treating. This rearranges the crystal structure of the metal, and makes it harder. But, with your 350whp goal, you should not need either of these processes.

If you're planning to run nitrous, it's usually recommended that you do some sort of treatment(s) to strengthen the metals. If you're going this way, you can look into ceramic coating the pistons. This helps against detonation.

 

[nightspeed87]

me and my mechanic just finished building up my 6bolt engine about to be dropped in about a week or so and i put 2g pistons in that engine and cryotreated about everything in the engine for extra durability... My internals should be good for at least 450 whp with the big rods and cryotreating ( of course with the right tune and set up that is )... I dont know the step in dropping the 6bolt into a 2g since i had a 1g 7bolt to 6bolt swap, but I have heard that you might want dsmlink or something to clear cel codes after that swap, and if your building the engine it all depends on how much you are wanting to spend, but I see it, while its out try to do as much as you can so you dont have to go back, id at least recommend trying to build up the bottom end as much as possible since the head is easier accessible later on, and for piece of mind; replace water/oil pumps, gaskets, tensioners, belts, rings, and everything you can think of ... Good luck!

 

[keymaster]

Just as an aside, nightspeed, bone stock internals are good AT LEAST up to 450whp with a decent tune. There have been several people who have topped 500whp with stock internals as well. IMHO, go with the 2g pistons/1g rods. If you're only after 350, you could just stick with 1g pistons too.

 

[92awddsm]

If you are only looking for 350whp, just leave the 1g pistons in the engine and spend the saved $ on dsmlink. If you feel that you must replace the pistons, you might as well get some forged pistons(wiseco, je, etc) because after buying new 2g pistons and have the rods machined to fit them, you have spent close to the price of a set of wiseco's. I would also replace the rod bolts with arp's while you are in the engine.

 

[nightspeed87]

If you are only looking for 350whp, just leave the 1g pistons in the engine and spend the saved $ on dsmlink. If you feel that you must replace the pistons, you might as well get some forged pistons(wiseco, je, etc) because after buying new 2g pistons and have the rods machined to fit them, you have spent close to the price of a set of wiseco's. I would also replace the rod bolts with arp's while you are in the engine.

Which is a very good point, ( me in example i got a good deal on the 2g pistons ordeal so thats why I went that route ) But whatever route your going, get the compression ratio of at least around the 2g compression ratio of 8:5.1 because since your a 2g your timing maps are set up for that compression ratio and you most likely will loose power going with a lower comp ( that is unless you get dsmlink or chipped or something you can change all that )And definitly get the arps if you can.

Just as an aside, nightspeed, bone stock internals are good AT LEAST up to 450whp with a decent tune. There have been several people who have topped 500whp with stock internals as well. IMHO, go with the 2g pistons/1g rods. If you're only after 350, you could just stick with 1g pistons too.

Yea but I was just being conservative, I guess didnt want to sound like I was being cocky or anything. I know the tech guide stated 400hp so I just said 450 to keep any possible arguement down. But its all good...

 

[Boost Freak 3]

Thanks alot guys for the advise im going to stick with the 1g big rods and 2g pistons but im going to make them a little bit more new looking for better derability. One last qustion 1g head or a 2g head?

 

[nightspeed87]

well 1g head has bigger ports....

In my opinion the 2g head is ok for the T25s power limits since it falls off so early anyways,
but anything bigger a 1g head would be better....
But since your already doing a 6bolt swap maybe it will come with the head already attached,
but if your only getting the block Id also go and pic up a 1g head. Any yr 1g would work, but if its a 93 or 94 1g the head studs will be smaller I believe, i think 6bolt head has 12mm, and 7bolt head has 11mm, but thats really no issue. Here read this -

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/1G-2G_intake.html

 

[92awddsm]

Any yr 1g would work, but if its a 93 or 94 1g the head studs will be smaller I believe, i think 6bolt head has 12mm, and 7bolt head has 11mm, but thats really no issue. Here read this -

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/1G-2G_intake.html

Actually, the 1g6 and 7 bolt heads are identical except for the 2 larger manifold studs. The head bolt holes are the same and the 1g 7 bolt head will fit the 6 bolt block without any mods. And some of the 2g heads work on the 6 bolt block without reaming the holes. It is a hit or miss deal only on the 2g 7 bolt.

 

[Boost Freak 3]

Thanks guys for all your help

 

[tight_tsi]

I had my goals set to run 2g pistons on my 1g rods but no one in my local area would machine the rods for a reasonable price. Best place I found wanted $50 per rod! So I decided to apply that $200 towards forged internals and go that route. In fact, I just purchased my Ross 8.5:1 forged pistons today - can't wait to get them. My machine shop said we need to bore .020 over to get everything set up nicely. I think every situation is different and budget is a big factor as well. I was going to get forged rods too but for my goals I'm just going to use the 1g big rods. Good luck with your decision -

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Thanks alot guys for the advise im going to stick with the 1g big rods and 2g pistons but im going to make them a little bit more new looking for better derability. One last qustion 1g head or a 2g head?

2G heads will out flow the 1G heads in the low/mid range, the top end is where the 1G head shines.
It all depends on what you want it for. DD street driving go 2G head, taking it to the track a few times per month, and have spirited 2am drives at 7k then go 1G head.

Dustin

 

[Boost Freak 3]

Ive been lookin around and Ive have some more qustions. Could I just swap a JDM engine in they seem to have the higher compression and the 210 horse and 215 tourqe. What do you guys think about that? Also can i do an evo swap?

 

[fourreGsixty3]

yes, you can swap an early evo motor into our cars. not sure if you have to fab up some motor mounts, or what not, I just know that people have done this mod, but why pay all that extra cash for and evo motor when its essentially the same motor.

Dustin

 

[1g_tsi_awd]

If I am not mistaken the evo motor is flipped around?

Or is that just in the VIII and IX?

I personally say that is an overrated more swap, it is just too expesive...

 

[fourreGsixty3]

If I am not mistaken the evo motor is flipped around?

Or is that just in the VIII and IX?

I personally say that is an overrated more swap, it is just too expesive...

This is just the later EVOs. The early EVOs engine is in the same spot as ours. http://www.enginereplacement.com/htdocs/performance_specials.htm , scroll 1/2 way down the page, under mitsu, you are looking at the intake manifold, from the back side of the motor, so its the same as our engine. Yes I agree that its not a great swap, its the same motor that we have in our cars surrently, but more expensive to get.

Dustin

 

[Boost Freak 3]

Okay then the evo swap is out thanks for the info. But what about the JDM 6 bolt that has the higher compression and the more horespower I think it was 210 and 215 torque. can anyone give any info on that.

 

[1g_tsi_awd]

I think you should just get a USDM and build it up... With the extra money for a JDM motor you could put it towards stronger parts for a USDM motor... But if you really want to go JDM check out www.naganojapanese.com

They have 4g63's that come with 30 day warranty and basically all the stuff you need for your build...

 

[Boost Freak 3]

But heres the prob. I still have to buy the 6 bolt and then all the parts plus tranny. Now do you guys think it would be cheaper to just go ahead and buy just a block then all the parts, or i can buy the long block and tear it down and rebuild. I would love to do that but I think that would get pricey wouldnt. I mean putting in the 2g pistons (which I would have to buy and get fitted) then getting the block cleaned and maybe bored. Then the head has to get clean and I want to add cams plus 3g lifters. What do you guys think?

 

[1g_tsi_awd]

Or you could buy a complete engine and just learn about DSM's first and do some bolt-on's, ecu tunes, and what not, but don't go to crazy until you really know what your doing?

Just a suggestion, not meaning to be a dick...

 

[Boost Freak 3]

understanding but ive all ready did that with my first dsm. I want to now build one from the ground up. I blew everyting in my last DSM Engine was beaten and blew the clutch tranny and diff, from a lack of experince and just learning. I know my stuff just getting more ideas and opinions. I fell you can never know enough.

 

[nightspeed87]

understanding but ive all ready did that with my first dsm. I want to now build one from the ground up. I blew everyting in my last DSM Engine was beaten and blew the clutch tranny and diff, from a lack of experince and just learning. I know my stuff just getting more ideas and opinions. I fell you can never know enough.

.... and thats exactly why you cant find a nice decent used dsm hardly anywhere these days......



As far as what your trying to do, are you looking just for an engine because you dont have one, or yours is messed up? Id just try to pick up a 6 bolt and build it up part by part if you dont have the money to do it all at once like I did.... And take your time so therefore your more satisfied with the result... And if you can get the 2g pistons job done cheap then go for it, but personally ( despite I have 2g pistons ) I wouldnt recommend the trouble when you could just by some 8:5 comp pistons forged for the same price... ( I lucked up on my 2g piston deal ) And where you mentioned 3g lifters, ( a 3g is a 2.4 sohc or v6 syder ) your refering to the 2gC ( as in third remodel of the 2g. ) Yea you could do that or just buy an upgraded valve train.

 

[Boost Freak 3]

Okay well I found a 1g with a built motor so im just going to do that till I find my 97 shell. Thank you for all the help guys