Big 16g better then evoIII16g??

[JohnCIV_Talon]

Take a look at the dyno sheets, it is interesting becasue all I see on here is big16g's. Not saying this has everyones dyno or that everyone even has a dyno but its just interesting. Tell me what you think.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dynosheets.php?&do=smallturbo

 

[My91TalonTSi]

So your saying turbochargers.com has knockoffs too..

Not sure if they still do, but they use to carry the knock off EVO 3 GT's.

 

[nightspeed87]

well like i said its the one on this page that has BBL under it.

http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/evo3.htm

 

[motomattxxx]

I cant believe that they are trying to get $50 MORE for the chinese KNOCKOFF turbo than the real EVO3 turbo from Mitsu! Nice how the "Truth about the Evo3GT" link is down.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

So your saying turbochargers.com has knockoffs too..

nightspeed87, I'm kind of suprised that with 1,400 posts you're not better informed about the the EVO III GT. But this is a place for learning so definitely go ahead and read up some about the situation.
It is sold by few vendors as a competing part to the REAL MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) Evo III 16g. It is a knockoff.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1731529#post1731529
An old thread with some decent info.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256604&highlight=evo
A newer thread with information about MHI vs. GT knockoff vs. ebay GT knockoff of a knockoff.
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1587506#post1587506
Here is probably the most interesting thread on the topic. It is about the EVO GT guys coming clean with the community. Followed by some really really uncalled for remarks. Makes me happy I stick it out with Tuners over some alternatives.

 

[CanadianTSi]

http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/evo3.htm

Well if it works it works, and this is the turbo I have. No its not a ebay turbo and I dont like your sarcasm.

I didn't say it doesn't work. I didn't say you bought it off Ebay, and I wasn't being sarcastic...

 

[daren_p]

http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/evo3.htm

Well if it works it works, and this is the turbo I have. No its not a ebay turbo and I dont like your sarcasm.

Rj, there was no sarcasm in CanadianTSi's reply, he was simply stateing a fact. The reason your says evoIII GT is because it Is a knock off of the real MHI EvoIII. The company that produces these goes under the name "GT" & you can see some of their other products on different websites such as turbochargers.com. All their other products also seem to be knock off's, such as their GT manifold which is a knock off of the evoIII exhaust mani. Not saying their a bad product, as theres enough debate already on that just they aren't made by MHI. Alot of other vendors other then tc's.com were also selling these turbos but looks like they've been dropped by everybody as their no longer listed on websites. There a tonn of info on these GT turbos & other evoIII knock off's on here, I'm surprised you haven't run into any threads already?

To the OP yours would be a true MHI EvoIII as thats the way the number should look, most of the numbers cast with a couple stamped into the cover.

 

[GVR4592]

I think we've established the Evo 3 is the better turbo, and we don't need another thread about knockoff's. I'd say this thread has served it's purpose, so lets move on to something else.

 

[96gstdsm]

I Wanted to get the evo3 16g but I wound up getting the big 16g turbo. I am not planning on pushing like more than 300 whp with it. Is there anything I am going to be disappointed with in the big 16g turbo? I am going to have it ported a little bit before I install it. I will probably run it around 18 or so psi daily driven only. The flow seems to be pretty similar with both of them. If I get the big 16g turbo ported out a little to increase spool is there any other drawback I am unaware of?

 

[romeen]

I Wanted to get the evo3 16g but I wound up getting the big 16g turbo. I am not planning on pushing like more than 300 whp with it. Is there anything I am going to be disappointed with in the big 16g turbo? I am going to have it ported a little bit before I install it. I will probably run it around 18 or so psi daily driven only. The flow seems to be pretty similar with both of them. If I get the big 16g turbo ported out a little to increase spool is there any other drawback I am unaware of?

The B16G should be fine for your 300 hp goal. It compares pretty closely with the EVO 3 16G. The compressor wheel of the EVO has thinner blades which make it lighter leading to slightly quicker spool. The comp wheel is just a hair bigger as well I believe. The turbine housing was also slightly redesigned making it a couple pounds lighter and a little more resistant to cracking from heat. It is preferable to the B16G but not enough to lose any sleep over. Your turbo should hold 18 psi with no problem and can handle more if you want.

 

[96gstdsm]

The B16G should be fine for your 300 hp goal. It compares pretty closely with the EVO 3 16G. The compressor wheel of the EVO has thinner blades which make it lighter leading to slightly quicker spool. The comp wheel is just a hair bigger as well I believe. The turbine housing was also slightly redesigned making it a couple pounds lighter and a little more resistant to cracking from heat. It is preferable to the B16G but not enough to lose any sleep over. Your turbo should hold 18 psi with no problem and can handle more if you want.

Do you think it would be safe and having reliability stay high, to run over 20 psi, with my rebuilt 6 bolt short block with 1g big rods and 2g pistons, arp headstuds, mls headgasket, 650 cc injectors, 190 pump, ecu+ for tuning? Sorry to stray a little from topic, but I have had a hard time finding out for sure what is easily safe to run with a set up like mine. I would really want it to last a long time as well. I don't plan on rebuilding every other year or anything either, so long term reliability is also a hope of mine.

 

[romeen]

Do you think it would be safe and having reliability stay high, to run over 20 psi, with my rebuilt 6 bolt short block with 1g big rods and 2g pistons, arp headstuds, mls headgasket, 650 cc injectors, 190 pump, ecu+ for tuning? Sorry to stray a little from topic, but I have had a hard time finding out for sure what is easily safe to run with a set up like mine. I would really want it to last a long time as well. I don't plan on rebuilding every other year or anything either, so long term reliability is also a hope of mine.

It really depends on how well the car is tuned. Your bottom end combined with the ARP's should be able to handle your goals pretty easily. Just run good gas, make sure it's tuned well and have some way of monitoring your engine and you should be fine.

 

[96gstdsm]

It really depends on how well the car is tuned. Your bottom end combined with the ARP's should be able to handle your goals pretty easily. Just run good gas, make sure it's tuned well and have some way of monitoring your engine and you should be fine.

Ok thanks, yeah I'm going to get it professionally dyno tuned so I am hoping that would give it a nice reliable and safe tune! I also have a palm pilot and I am hooking it up to my ECU+ and I will keep it always in my car to monitor everything.
Do you know, considering a good tune, what a safe amount of boost is to run with a set up like that on pump gas (93)?

 

[elfroggo]

Well you'll figure out what is the best amount of boost to run when you're tuning it. No one can tell you what that is.

 

[nightspeed87]

nightspeed87, I'm kind of suprised that with 1,400 posts you're not better informed about the the EVO III GT. But this is a place for learning so definitely go ahead and read up some about the situation.
It is sold by few vendors as a competing part to the REAL MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) Evo III 16g. It is a knockoff.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1731529#post1731529
An old thread with some decent info.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256604&highlight=evo
A newer thread with information about MHI vs. GT knockoff vs. ebay GT knockoff of a knockoff.
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1587506#post1587506
Here is probably the most interesting thread on the topic. It is about the EVO GT guys coming clean with the community. Followed by some really really uncalled for remarks. Makes me happy I stick it out with Tuners over some alternatives.

Ok thanks for all the info and all the post were most likely small talk or helping other ppl on what I do know versus helping myself. Ive heard of the knock offs but I only thought that was ebay. O Well either way I dont really care too much as long as it works and lays good numbers in which it does and besides I bought it off of a friend for 250 after it was rebuilt ( in which it didnt have anything wrong with it before it got rebuilt, but had a yr of use at 22psi'; so was just for good measures). Also i assumed when they were saying knock off as like it was garabage and couldnt do nothing or last but they just ment knock off relevant to the creators I see.

I didn't say it doesn't work. I didn't say you bought it off Ebay, and I wasn't being sarcastic...

Well you just said its a knock off but didnt provide why it was after I gave you more details about it so you sounded like one of those ppl who just add their 2 cents to be a dick and not to help. My bad for misunderstanding.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Ok thanks for all the info and all the post were most likely small talk or helping other ppl on what I do know versus helping myself. Ive heard of the knock offs but I only thought that was ebay. O Well either way I dont really care too much as long as it works and lays good numbers in which it does and besides I bought it off of a friend for 250 after it was rebuilt ( in which it didnt have anything wrong with it before it got rebuilt, but had a yr of use at 22psi'; so was just for good measures). Also i assumed when they were saying knock off as like it was garabage and couldnt do nothing or last but they just ment knock off relevant to the creators I see.


Well you just said its a knock off but didnt provide why it was after I gave you more details about it so you sounded like one of those ppl who just add their 2 cents to be a dick and not to help. My bad for misunderstanding.

No worries buddy!
We're all friends here at tuners

 

[nightspeed87]

No worries buddy!
We're all friends here at tuners

I wish it really were that way but some ppl dont feel that way,
and i know you were just helping. I shouldve done more research but I didnt care
at the time since I was buying it off someone I knew and knew it worked for their car
and also my 14b has a smoking problem so another reason I bought it.
One thing though, since this evo3 is rebuilt , is it possible it was giving MHI internals
on its rebuild?( it was semi proffessionally done)

 

[Syndicate13]

I wish it really were that way but some ppl dont feel that way,
and i know you were just helping. I shouldve done more research but I didnt care
at the time since I was buying it off someone I knew and knew it worked for their car
and also my 14b has a smoking problem so another reason I bought it.
One thing though, since this evo3 is rebuilt , is it possible it was giving MHI internals
on its rebuild?( it was semi proffessionally done)

The thrust bearings are not interchangeable between the knockoff and the MHI units. I wouldn't worry about it too much. You'll read just as many threads of MHI units failing as the GT's failing. A local had an MHI unit fail after a few thousand miles, then switched to a GT and laid down 413/432 on a 2 litre. Run it til it dies and then worry about it.

 

[dsm-onster]

Back to the subject.

I talked to a big 16G guy on the dsmLink forums that have recorded 38 lbs/min airflow. around the same as an evo3 16gs potential!!! He has a clipped turbine wheel . . .Clipping lowers turbine wheel efficiency but the trade offs are apparently worth it. If you want more, clipping can cost very little.

Evo3 16g vs. big 16g:

The bottem line: both flow out the tail pipe about the same as the turbines are both identical in flow... It comes down to the inducer. The evo3 16g sucks in more air per revolution as it has a larger diameter inducer. So overall flow will be better. Therefore, cams, smim, and or stroking will be more suited to the evo3 16g if ONLY these two are the choice. BUT, the exducer and the blade shapes are the same. Thus, the big 16g shows the same potential efficiency at the same boost levels as the evo3 16g... see Turbo Wheel-Size Comparison for more details. In fact, read the entire page to be a better contributer to the dsm community . Therefore if you plan on a significant cam upgrade, getting your evo3 16g or get your big 16g clipped will yield great results. Based on the compressor maps, if you plan on running the stock longblock, their will be no significant difference between the turbos as both can outflow the long block at their highest efficient boost.

 

[Syndicate13]

Back to the subject.

I talked to a big 16G guy on the dsmLink forums that have recorded 38 lbs/min airflow. around the same as an evo3 16gs potential!!! He has a clipped turbine wheel . . .Clipping lowers turbine wheel efficiency but the trade offs are apparently worth it. If you want more, clipping can cost very little.

Evo3 16g vs. big 16g:

The bottem line: both flow out the tail pipe about the same as the turbines are both identical in flow... It comes down to the inducer. The evo3 16g sucks in more air per revolution as it has a larger diameter inducer. So overall flow will be better. Therefore, cams, smim, and or stroking will be more suited to the evo3 16g if ONLY these two are the choice. BUT, the exducer and the blade shapes are the same. Thus, the big 16g shows the same potential efficiency at the same boost levels as the evo3 16g... see Turbo Wheel-Size Comparison for more details. In fact, read the entire page to be a better contributer to the dsm community . Therefore if you plan on a significant cam upgrade, getting your evo3 16g or get your big 16g clipped will yield great results. Based on the compressor maps, if you plan on running the stock longblock, their will be no significant difference between the turbos as both can outflow the long block at their highest efficient boost.

People on the Evo3 have seen over 40lbs min with the current high being 44. A big 16g will not touch those numbers. That's not to discredit the big 16g, it still performs well but as with everything there is always something better.

 

[dsm-onster]

People on the Evo3 have seen over 40lbs min with the current high being 44. A big 16g will not touch those numbers. That's not to discredit the big 16g, it still performs well but as with everything there is always something better.

This guy wasn't done tuning.

Where's an evo3 16g flowing such peak numbers on a stock short block or under 7500 rpms? . . . Like I said overall potential of the evo3 comressor wheel is higher, but the question is, 'Can one get there with his mods?'

It has been doccumented that the choke flow max potential flow of 560 cfm is the same for both turbos. . . see http://stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm#c.

 

[BloodWolfRonin]

yyeess does a little dance

Right on!! I just recently installed mine and absolutely love it Happy tunin!