base timing

[packinkimber45]

hey guys, I just got off the phone with the previous owner on my talon tsi awd. he told me that the timing is set to 8 degrees. I know base timing is suppose to be 5 degrees. he said that here in idaho due to the altitude it needs to be at 8 degrees. can I get confirmation on this? If this isnt correct, how do I set it. it's not in my haynes manual and cant find via search.

also on another subject... I am trying to do baseline tuning on my car via safc, can anyone tell me since I have stock 450's and no afpr (I do have a walbro 255) what settings should I have my th-point set at. I have read th-point lo at 69% and th-point hi at 70%. on another article I have read to have th-point low at 30% and th-point hi at 80-85%. Do I need to set mine differently since I do have 255 fuel pump w/o upgraded injectors and afpr? thanks in advance.

 

[donmagicjuan]

hey guys, I just got off the phone with the previous owner on my talon tsi awd. he told me that the timing is set to 8 degrees. I know base timing is suppose to be 5 degrees. he said that here in idaho due to the altitude it needs to be at 8 degrees. can I get confirmation on this? If this isnt correct, how do I set it. it's not in my haynes manual and cant find via search.

also on another subject... I am trying to do baseline tuning on my car via safc, can anyone tell me since I have stock 450's and no afpr (I do have a walbro 255) what settings should I have my th-point set at. I have read th-point lo at 69% and th-point hi at 70%. on another article I have read to have th-point low at 30% and th-point hi at 80-85%. Do I need to set mine differently since I do have 255 fuel pump w/o upgraded injectors and afpr? thanks in advance.

That sounds really strange. I've heard of 1G guys retarding their base timing a couple degrees to get better results when tuning, but never advancing it. A 1G already has a fairly aggressive timing map, so when tuning for larger injectors with an AFC or equivalent it can be advantageous to retard the base timing 2-3 degrees. I guess in theory at higher altitudes the air is less dense, so you could get away with more timing; I've just never heard of anyone doing it.

For setting the base timing, here's a link to the vfaq page for hooking up the timing light. http://www.vfaq.com/mods/wayback/BradBauer/misc/tim-l.html
I'm sure a search for "base timing" will net you something useful as far as actually adjusting it. Just remember to search for thread titles only.

Regarding your tuning question, you need an AFPR. Trying to tune with a 255 pump and the stock regulator will be like banging your head against a brick wall. The stock one gets overrun by the pump at idle/light load conditions, and will cause you to run extremely rich. I would do this before trying to make any adjustments with the S-AFC.

 

[packinkimber45]

so should I just leave my timing where it is at or put it back to 5 deg? just want to make sure I have my basis covered to start from.

as far as having an afpr, I have heard that I should be okay to tune it as close to 100% as I can, but off course I will have idle overrun. right now I just dont have the funds to get an afpr and injectors or neither for that matter. I'll tune to see how I run and if issues maybe I will pull my stock pump out of the gsx and run that for a while until I can afford the fuel upgrades I need.

 

[JayRolla]

Some people to get some extra power will run advanced timing. If you are runing around 9-12 psi you can get away with 8-10*advanced. My mechanic likes the timing and runs 8* advanced on his 550+whp galant. I was reading a 1g free upgrade list and it said to set timing at 8* which puzzled me and this was a dsm shop. They said around 15whp with the mods and advancing the timing has something to do with that. I would set it back to around 3-5*. Im runing 3* because I have 2g pistons and our timing advance is aggresive so I need less timing with the compression to run more boost. If you want to run more boost lower the timing.

 

[donmagicjuan]

so should I just leave my timing where it is at or put it back to 5 deg? just want to make sure I have my basis covered to start from.

as far as having an afpr, I have heard that I should be okay to tune it as close to 100% as I can, but off course I will have idle overrun. right now I just dont have the funds to get an afpr and injectors or neither for that matter. I'll tune to see how I run and if issues maybe I will pull my stock pump out of the gsx and run that for a while until I can afford the fuel upgrades I need.

If you have a logger and you know the car isn't knocking, you can leave the timing where it is. However, if it was my car and I didn't have the ability to monitor knock, I would set the timing back to stock just for peace of mind. With stock injectors you're probably ok, but without a logger it's kind of a senseless risk to take for a few extra horsepower.

 

[packinkimber45]

If you have a logger and you know the car isn't knocking, you can leave the timing where it is. However, if it was my car and I didn't have the ability to monitor knock, I would set the timing back to stock just for peace of mind. With stock injectors you're probably ok, but without a logger it's kind of a senseless risk to take for a few extra horsepower.

thanks guys. actually I am getting lots of knock the first time I hooked up a logger to car. safc could be not adjusted right as well. just bought the car two months ago. but I will put it back to 5 deg then since all that knock. I got as high as 43 knock.

 

[donmagicjuan]

thanks guys. actually I am getting lots of knock the first time I hooked up a logger to car. safc could be not adjusted right as well. just bought the car two months ago. but I will put it back to 5 deg then since all that knock. I got as high as 43 knock.

That knock count is abnormally high. If retarding your base timing back to 5* BTDC doesn't cure it, post back in this thread and we can try to help you from there.

 

[packinkimber45]

I will do that. just need to get ahold of a timing light. thanks a lot guys. will post back.

 

[Gs Dewd]

When you got the reading of 43 counts of knock What were your doing? As in just off a hard run, at a low cruise speed. Did it hit that count under a hard pull? I have hit a count that high before but it was right after a hard run. back at a cruising speed of about 30 mph and it hit it for about 1 to 2 secs and was gone. Had another friends that also did the same thing. And it doesn't do it often at all. Give us some more detail of the knock situation.