Balance Shaft Elimination Problem...Help!

[1sickgst]

Hey guys. So, I just got my '97 GST out of the shop for a timing belt change. It's got 147k on it. I told them to go ahead and eliminate the balance shafts as well. It's a reputable shop in Knoxville, TN and they've done the job alot. Mostly on Hondas and SRT's, but some DSMs. Anyways I got it back and it idled like crap. I mean it was choking! Barely a few RPMs on the tach. Once you got on the gas it was fine. I will to you that it is a automatic as well if it helps your prognosis. I was surprised because people said there'd be more vibration, but there really isn't any; except at idle. The big problem...oil pressure and leaking. It's a 35 minute drive home from the shop and I notice my oil pressure gauge on the dash gradually dropping. I got home and after ten minutes of it parked I noticed a good sized puddle of oil. I knew I had to take it back. This morning I check the oil level and the stick was bone dry. I had to put 3-1/2 qts in to get the level back up. Another thing I noticed was I could hear the electrical 'ticks' at the coil pack. Is this normal? You can here each coil tick tick tick tick tick tick. My CEL came back on, but I don't know if it's a new issue or if it's the same O2 sensor code from the catylitic converter being gone (full 3" exhaust). As far as the idling issue goes, can you adjust the throttle at idle to give it more gas or is there a real solution to the problem? So I need your help guys. Wiseman especially! I apologize for the length, but I wanted you to need everything about the car.

 

[1gcrazy]

I'm guessing the puddle is from an incorrectly installed oil pan gasket, It could be something else but they're usually not an issue if you can find where its coming from and you FIX it. You can adjust the idle screw and bring it up to the propor RPM(I dont know the exact specs). I'm not too familiar with a tick from the coil pack but I think thats the only problem you have left after you get the other two fixed. Maybe some of these smarter guys can help you with the tick issue cus i dont know. Good luck with it all.

 

[toojung2die]

If I hear ticking coming from my ignition spark it has usually been arcing through the plug wires. That could be causing your idling problem but I don't think so. The ticking you hear is coming from the fuel injectors, not the coil packs. They're right next to one another so it's easy to mistake the source of the sound. It's normal. I had terrible idling when my timing belt was a tooth off. Since you just had yours replaced I would suspect they didn't get it timed right. I would also suspect the balance shaft removal job as the source of your oil leak. None of these latter two problems existed before you took it to the shop, right? You get it back and it's gushing oil and not idling. I would take it back to the place that did the work and have them correct it.

 

[Dream On]

The oil leak sounds like they didn't close up the hole for the front shaft correctly. I'd give them the write up for the BSE and see if they did everything correctly. I'd have them recheck that the timing marks all line up as well. Try adjusting the idle, but I would guess that they did something else to affect it.

 

[1sickgst]

One other thing is that the engine visibly vibrates alot in the engine bay. I saw in the VFAQ section of changing a timing belt that if the oil pump spocket isn't aligned correctly that it could cause severe engine vibration. Would you think this to be a cause of the noticable vibration? Could it be a cause of the poor idling? Thanks.

 

[Turbocharged]

The oil leak sounds like they didn't close up the hole for the front shaft correctly.

I second that. It seems to be a common problem with people who do the BS removal. The only thing that they had to remove that could leak are:

1. ^^^
2. oil pan
3. oil pump shaft seal

Did they align the timing marks correctly?

 

[1sickgst]

They said timing was dead on and you gotta think they know what they're doing. I don't know though. The car just feels like it's about to die. Any WISEMEN out there?

 

[Diplomat]

There's a possibility that if you had low oil pressure or your oil level dropped to a very low level, you could be getting some ticking from dry lifters. Once you add oil, it make take them a while to quiet down again. It takes about twenty miles or so of driving for new lifters to pipe down.

 

[Strm Trpr]

This is exactly why I do all of the work on my car in my own garage.

 

[oldman]

They said timing was dead on and you gotta think they know what they're doing. I don't know though. The car just feels like it's about to die. Any WISEMEN out there?

At this point, you need to stop assuming that and start checking for youself.

1. Track down the oil leak.

2. Check your timing.

3. Did you provided them with all the parts? If so, list what you provided. If not, list items they charged you for.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Yep.... You are going to have to man up and get the T-Belt covers completely off.
First start off with all auxillary belts, ie., PS, Water Pump, Alternator and A/C belts, remove them.
Now, jack the front of your car up and place 2 jackstands under it on the main rails of the chassis.
Remove driver's side wheel and splash guard.
Remove the crankshaft pulley, the 4 12mm screws.
Remove the top T-Belt cover.
Then you'll need to place a jack with a cushion like a small piece of a 2x4 under your oil pan.
Remove the T-Belt side motor mount, use the jack to keep the motor up while you remove all T-Belt covers.
Once all covers are removed, reinstall the T-Belt side motor mount.
Then once that's done, get a 1/2" drive ratchet and place the square drive in the crankshaft sprocket nut.
Crank the motor by hand clockwise til the crankshaft timing mark lines up.
Now check to see if the camshaft sprocket dowel pins are pointing straight up at 12 o'clock and that the inner timing marks are level with the edge of the head thru the axes of the camshaft screw heads and aligned where the Valve Cover seals to the head.
If not, then continue turning the motor by hand til the crankshaft lines up again.
You should be able to tell if you're timed correctly at this point.
Take pictures and post them up.

And do the other things that Oldman suggested too.
I know exactly what parts need to be replaced when doing a T-Belt/BSE, I just ordered everything for my GSX, which reminds me, I've gotta check the tracking to see when I should expect them....
*** Edit *** Just found out my parts will arrive tomorrow. *** Edit ***

 

[Dream On]

Any WISEMEN out there?

Other people know stuff as well...

 

[1sickgst]

Ok, so after I took it back, they found the leak and fixed it. The 'ticking' sound they said was the injectors. Anyways, some new problems have arisen now. First it started by accidentally unplugging the oil pressure sending unit connector and something happened with the wires from it and they had to replace it. In that whole process, they did something else and now the windows won't go up or down. I'm thinking "what they hell did you do"? They're thinking ther're going to get it all figured out today. Who knows.

 

[kazzam]

Ok, so after I took it back, they found the leak and fixed it. The 'ticking' sound they said was the injectors. Anyways, some new problems have arisen now. First it started by accidentally unplugging the oil pressure sending unit connector and something happened with the wires from it and they had to replace it. In that whole process, they did something else and now the windows won't go up or down. I'm thinking "what they hell did you do"? They're thinking ther're going to get it all figured out today. Who knows.

So did they figure it out or what?

 

[nightspeed87]

when my balance shaft was removed we just turned the bearing around like 180 degrees to cover the hole i believe.... The ticking noise would be lifter , at least in my case, and the slight clicking is the injectors. This is why im skeptical to bring my car any where to have service done ppl always mess your stuff up worse, thats why I like to stick with one person, and normally someone who is very knowledgeable about your car either because he builds that engine frequently or has done so in the past, or owns the same car himself.

 

[BISHILVR]

The leak was probably from the front balance shaft idler pulley that they left out, and did'nt think that they had to replace the bolt that holds it in. That will cause a nice leak.

 

[1sickgst]

So all the problems have been fixed. Turns out the ECU was fried. Now why these other problems didn't occur until the car went in I have no idea. Oh well. The car is fine though. Although, I do have some concerns. One really. After removing the balance shafts and having the timing belt replaced, it has a real rough idle when in drive. It's fine when it's in park and while driving, but it idles real choppy low in the rpms. When it's in park it idles around 800 rpms. Real weird. Any ideas? Thanks guys.

 

[bfdahl]

If the ISC is bad it will fry the ECU. If the shop dose not know this you will fry the ECU you have in the car now!

A stuck ISC will give you a crappy idle, and so will a dirty thottle body.

If you uplug the battery for repairs Mitsus Idle speed motor will reset to its default position

and if your thottle body and ISC passage is full of carbon the servo will get stuck in the junk and idle like crap until it either gets cleaned by you or after a while resets it self. (pending its not seized).

 

[DROOPY209]

damn, I didn't know a bad ISC would fry an ECU...

You learn something new everyday.