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Auto awd launch setup help!!

Posted by 98gst14b, Feb 25, 2014

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  1. 98gst14b

    98gst14b Proven Member

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    Since I have swapped to a built auto setup I have been having two problems, one might be a setup issues and was hoping some of the more experienced would help chime in with this, my mods are current in profile but the basics are below:

    Hx40 .63 bep
    Wastegate @ 39psi
    Pump 93 with direct port achohol @ 20psi
    Built 2.0 with 272s
    75 wet shot
    5 fric front/shift kit/cranked line pressure
    Kiggly flex with a restalled stock TC
    Audi brake vacuum pump stock brakes otherwise

    N2o is only being used to stall, but when set to 4000 rev limit the brakes won't hold the car, problem one, bled the brakes numerous times, second problem is when I go by kigglys launch setup guidelines the rpms are either too low but the boost psi is about right, little over 10psi, and when released the car is a slug then spools and pulls. If I raise the rpms to say 4500, which the brakes won't hold, the car has high boost psi, 25-30, but won't even spin the wheels when released! I have a set of slicks I wanted to use too. I'm thinking maybe rpms are too low but boost is too high? Let me know what you think, thanks!
     

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  2. Boosted6

    Boosted6 Proven Member

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    Target leaving at 4000RPM with 12-14psi boost. I have a very similar setup, T67/.63 turbine housing. IPT converter tho. Are you using alcohol past 20 psi and nitrous only to stall?

    Any chance you can take a video?
     
  3. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Black97spyder can help on this. He was getting pretty good at launching his 97 auto awd talon last spring, but it took practice. He's my son, you might PM him. He leaves at 4000-4500 and brakes with brakes and e-brake and holding onto the steering wheel as tight as possible to keep from creeping. He now has a good set of binders, but the car is down for a tranny rebuild. He can still provide valuable info to help you out tho. :thumb:
     

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  4. 98gst14b

    98gst14b Proven Member

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    Boosted6 you are correct, I have a gopro vid but is of little help as you can't see what any of the gauges are doing. I can back off the antilag to get my psi down for 4000rpm. But I can see it lagging off the line thru first if I release the nitrous with the brakes. 90tsi, thx I will pm him now and reference this thread.
     
  5. crash89

    crash89 Proven Member

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    If Im not mistaken, Im pretty sure a couple buddys of mine had to use an extra vacuum pump to aid them with braking capability while staging. I've heard them both say that they feel like they're going to push the brake pedal through the floor.
     

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  6. TalonSpeed

    TalonSpeed Proven Member

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    What is the stall on the converter?
    What is the two step set at?
    What is the antilag set at?
    How and when is the shot being sprayed?
     

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  7. -red97rum-

    -red97rum- Proven Member

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    Have you tried spraying it out to the 60' mark or most of the way through 1st gear? That's what I do with my car. I have my 2-step (ignition cut) set at 3600rpm and only build about 7-8psi of boost on the line, also have the timing pin grounded to the brake pedal with base timing set to 2* which gives a little less torque to help hold her back with the foot brake. I also use a VW vacuum pump T'd inline with the booster and I yank the e-brake hard as f*ck. When I let go of the brake, ecu gives timing and I'm spraying about a 65ish shot. Car leaves smooth and hard, cut multiple 1.5 60' that way. I'm running a Borg Warner S366 in a .91 T4 housing by the way, which doesn't fully spool unitl 5500+ rpm.

    When I was running an hx35, I used to stall up around 4200rpm with 20+psi of boost, let go of the brake and blow the tires off the damn thing. I would use the nitrous controlled off the FPS until the turbo reached 15+ psi of boost. The trans temps would also get way hotter this way. Sometimes less is more.
     

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  8. 98gst14b

    98gst14b Proven Member

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    Yes, above I stated u use the audi brake vacuum pump, not enough it seems. :(

    Stall with no nitrous is 3000, nitrous will bring it as high as u want, only being limited by brakes, and two step. Two step is 4000, -10 deg 9:1 AFR. Shot is push button, held in after the 3000rpm is met, I release the button along with the brakes.

    I have not yet held the nitrous through 1st gear yet, I also have not tried yanking the ebrake either, I can try but when I leave I would have no hands on the wheel as my left hand is on the nitrous and right would release the brake, move to the wheel, and wack the 1-2 shift button, lot going on there, I could relocate the n20 switch tho.
     
  9. SonySlave

    SonySlave Proven Member

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    How are you controlling the antilag? ECMLink? If you are, that's your first problem. While some have had limited success, the RPM swing is far too wide and can cause variations in launch RPM. Leave at the top of the swing, maybe you'll get a good launch. Leave at the bottom of the swing and you'll little bog badly. If you're using ECMLink's antilag, do yourself a favor and pick up an MSD DIS-2 or Dynatek ARC-2 ignition box. They both have a great ignition cut 2-step and very fine tunable RPM points for the 2-step. You'll have much better control over how much boost you launch with. Ask me how I know these things... I've been there using both methods.

    What brake pads are you using? A good set of race pads in front that bite hard while cold will do wonders. The Brakeman #93 street pads are absolutely amazing, even when cold, and are made for stock 2-piston front calipers. Also, the Audi/VW vacuum pumps aren't the most powerful and can leave a lot to be desired. They do work though and lots of big power guys are using them with success. I'm using a mini air compressor plumbed backward and it's amazing.

    In the end, the combination of good race pads, 2-piston front brakes, an ignition-based 2-step, and a vacuum pump should be able to hold back any amount of power that HX40 that throw out. If you are pulling through the brakes or having to try and use the e-brake (which doesn't help), then you have a weak link somewhere. I've been using my FP3065, Brakeman #93s on stock 2-piston calipers, MSD DIS-2 with 2-step wired to brake pedal switch, and mini air compressor plumbed backward for a few years now and I can hold back anything I've thrown at my setup so far. I've had the 2-step as high as 5500RPM, or 30psi, and it still held. That was just testing. I actually only launch at 3600-3800. 1.46-1.48 60's are pretty common if I don't spin.
     

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  10. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Its a very busy cockpit in a auto with N2O, brakes jammed to the floor, ebrake on and needs released. I drove my sons car ONCE and i had to let the auto do its thing cause I was BUSY!!! Whew. Hope he PM's you with what he does. I know he's up now.
     

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  11. 98gst14b

    98gst14b Proven Member

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    Thanks a lot for your response! Very helpful, I have cheap stock style pads not sure which brand, was looking to buy hawk hp+ pads. I'll go ahead and order them, I'm using open port, which could possibly be worse than ecmlink, but I have the ability to have a still rev limit, antilag ign and AFR control, and antilag start rpm, which in the past I have set to about 500 rpm short of the studder box rpm. As far as the compressor where could I get one?
     
  12. SonySlave

    SonySlave Proven Member

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    It really doesn't have to be busy, people just make things way more complicated than they need to be. When I ran nitrous, all I had to do was flip a switch to arm the system and never touch anything else. Just two hands on the steering wheel and done...

    I've never used Openport, so I can't speak to that. ECMLink's 2-step/stutterbox is a fuel cut-based 2-step, which actually kills horsepower while killing torque, hence the reason it doesn't work well for an automatic. Some have used ECMLink's antilag functionality because it pulls timing, but as I mentioned above, you'll get the wide RPM swings. Openport could be the same. If you got one of the ignition boxes I mentioned above, you wouldn't have to use Openport's 2-step features at all and you'd have a true ignition cut 2-step that will only limit torque by controlling launch RPM, thus limiting the amount of boost you launch with.

    I'm using a Smittybilt MV50 air compressor. The MV50 is a generic compressor made by a ton of different companies. They're all the same and you can find them for less than $70.

    This is how plumbed mine. It's loud though, just so you know, but it works incredibly well.
    http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k134/jlh_011280/brakecompressor-2.png

    Compressor Google search:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=smi...mittybilt+mv50&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014

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  13. black97spyder

    black97spyder Proven Member

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    98gst14b - when i was staging last fall with my sinister speed weighted 8" core 2 and 20g turbo at 23psi I could get almost 5k rpm stall out of it and could build full boost before I ever leave the line.... how long do you try stalling your converter?? Without N20 it took me 10-15 seconds to build full boost before I would try to creep forward into the second set of staging beams.

    I also have an 8" 1350cfm slim fan on my IPT 28,000 lb GVW trans cooler to keep the temps from skyrocketing. And I also dont run altilag through dsmlink, I only run my dsmlink v3 2-step to keep me from stalling too high and blowing the tires off. Normally i keep it from hitting the 2-step so that I don't loose torque and boost like SonySlave mentioned.

    First I give the car a blip IN GEAR, just enough to bring vac to 0 while I press the brakes. Then, while braking, I will throttle up to "0" on the boost gauge (about 30% throttle) until I see about 2400ish rpm (which is pretty much instantly). As soon as I see the 2400-2500 rpm I then go to about 2/3 throttle and the boost would start building. It would be slow getting up to 10-12psi (around 3500rpm) then once it got past 12psi, it would leap to 23+ psi immediately and I would have to let off the gas some to keep from pushing through the brakes.... then once I was stalled, spooled and ready I would creep into the second set of staging beams and would make sure I could hold the car back (sometimes would have to let off the gas some to be able to hold it back). Normally i would leave the line at 4700 or so rpm at 22psi and the car would ALWAYS spin all 4 tires (street tires) for about 2 feet and then be gone :thumb:

    And if I had the N2O like you do then I would start spraying as soon as I got to the most boost and stall you could get without using it then after your already up a few psi, hit the N2O and it should get you to 15+psi before you leave... and of that doesn't help them try a brake vaccum pump like suggested above!

    Hope that helps!!
     

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  14. 98gst14b

    98gst14b Proven Member

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    I do already use a brake pump and it will suck the brake pedal all the way down till it bottoms out on the floor. If I stall with no n2o it wont go above 3000 no mater how long you hold it, it will max out about 7 psi 3000rpm and stay there forever, you release the brake and the car literally coasts and lags, im guessing because its under the spool rpm. N20 the second it sprayed the rpms and boost fly up, I honestly think it will bring it to redline if you let it (never have) but I limited it with the 2 step. The car will take about 10 sec to reach 7 psi with no n2o, from there it stays forever.
     
  15. black97spyder

    black97spyder Proven Member

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    First of all turn the antilag off completely and have your 2-step set at 4900 just in case she wants to stall real high... Start your stall without nitrous, once you get to the 3k rpm and 7ish psi, hit the nitrous and let her stall to 4500 or so (or right before you start creeping through the brakes, LOL thats what I go by) to where u can feel where it wants to boost more FAST and fly up in the rpms if u just barely press the gas anymore while on the brakes (flash stalling I believe is what they call it)... then right as the light is turning green let off the brake and mash the gas to make it stall alot more, instantly, all while your taking off.

    (Your hx40 might be too big to do this, as I was doing this with a mhi 20g, but I now have a hx40 in a BEP .70 A/R t3 housing so ill have to find a new way to stall it if my old way doesnt work.. but that method for stalling has worked GREAT for me and every time. Hell somtimes I can even do a full boost stall up in about 3 seconds if I can get my in gear blip perfect that helps my brakes, though im not really sure how that effects how fast is spools LOL)

    Thats how I got my 1.77 - 60' times on street tires :thumb:
     

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  16. richard33

    richard33 Proven Member

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    Tom, the brake pads will hold the car back once you get them. You should also hold the nitrous through the 60ft. Maybe up the shot too.
     

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  17. shainesboostin

    shainesboostin Probationary Member

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    How are you guys setting the 2 step to activate off the brake pedal?
     

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  18. SonySlave

    SonySlave Proven Member

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    This is specific to using an ARC-2 but you get the point.
     

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  19. TalonSpeed

    TalonSpeed Proven Member

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    brake pedal switch sends 12volts to brakes when pedal is pressed. use that 12volts as a signal for an arc-2 type box, or to a relay that sends a ground to the ecu clutch signal input for ecmlink.
     

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  20. shainesboostin

    shainesboostin Probationary Member

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    So with link, no arc box, I could do the same wiring but instead of it going to the arc box like in the diagram, it would just go to the clutch wire at the ecu?
     

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  21. shainesboostin

    shainesboostin Probationary Member

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    And 85 and 87 are both grounded of the relay?
     

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  22. shainesboostin

    shainesboostin Probationary Member

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    Looks like you would wire to pin 104? Neutral safety switch? Grrr so lost.
     

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  23. TalonSpeed

    TalonSpeed Proven Member

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    86 and 85 are the power and ground for the relay. It doesnt matter which is which.

    87 and 30, one should be connected to ground, the other to ECU Pin 91 on the 2G. Doesnt matter which is which, they will only connect when the relay is active.

    So the 12volts that trigger the brake lights off the brake pedal switch is going to power the relay also. Press brake, 12 volts to relay, pins 87 and 30 connect, ground is sent to ecu pin 91.

    https://www.ecmtuning.com/downloads/docs/2G Clutch Wire Instructions.pdf
     

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  24. Ben-Stian

    Ben-Stian Proven Member

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    Hi,
    I looked at your picture trying to understand the plumbing of the compressor. Is the check valve nearest the intake the correct way? To me it seems like boost will enter the brake booster fighting the vacuum?
    Thanks
     

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