Arp hitting spring??

[SFRacingGST]

I just bought a new stage 4 1g head from slowboy (All Brian crower internals with 280 cams). Was putting the head on the block today and on 4 of the bolt the washers would slip past the lower valve spring seat. So on those 4 i took the bolts out with the head out, put the washers on and then threaded the head bolts back in. Then when it came time to put the nuts on, the same 3 or 4 headbolts wouldn't slip past the lower valve spring seat again. Any suggestions??

 

[SFRacingGST]

heres a picture, look at the spring where it sits, the nut that i am trying to put on can't go pass this cause it hits

 

[2gAWDTalon]

I have had this problem with the washers but not the nuts... you are using ARP's right? If so they should be studs/washers and nuts... not bolts. On my car to defeat the problem of the washers clearing a few springs I set them in there before I drop the head on, however a freind is ussually needed to help adjust hold the head up because a few washers did not go down right. I have another freind that just takes a socket and pounds the washer past the valve spring, I just did not to do that with mine.

 

[SFRacingGST]

Sorry for the confusion. Yes i am using ARP hardware. I put the head on with the washers seated where they go, then i threaded the studs into the block, then when trying to clamp it down with the nuts its getting held up on the thing the spring seats on.
I tried to move the spring seat, but it didn't budge. I guess my next step would be to take the cams out and hope that frees up enought to shift i alittle, if not i guess i am going to have to disassemble the head and make sure theres enough clearence. Anyone have this problem?

 

[TalonD27A]

The problem is not all that uncommon and can be remedied in a few manners. You can call ARP and order 4 nuts of the same inside diameter and thread pitch, but they have a smaller flange at their seating surface. This will give you a few more millimeters of clearance to get past the spring seat. If you plan on running over 600hp I wouldn't recommend the smaller flange nuts, but rather removing spring seats and notching them out for the larger flange nuts that the original ARP head stud kit comes with. This won't cause any problems with the spring because most of the seat you are removing isn't used by the spring anyway. Just make sure that when you reinstall the spring seat with the spring it is indexed properly so you can put the nut on the stud. If you decide to order the smaller flange nuts just call ARP and order them direct. Tell them what kit you have, the complications you encountered, and that you want 4 of the same nuts in the kit, but with a smaller seat flange for more clearence. They don't cost much.

 

[SFRacingGST]

The problem is not all that uncommon and can be remedied in a few manners. You can call ARP and order 4 nuts of the same inside diameter and thread pitch, but they have a smaller flange at their seating surface. This will give you a few more millimeters of clearance to get past the spring seat. If you plan on running over 600hp I wouldn't recommend the smaller flange nuts, but rather removing spring seats and notching them out for the larger flange nuts that the original ARP head stud kit comes with. This won't cause any problems with the spring because most of the seat you are removing isn't used by the spring anyway. Just make sure that when you reinstall the spring seat with the spring it is indexed properly so you can put the nut on the stud. If you decide to order the smaller flange nuts just call ARP and order them direct. Tell them what kit you have, the complications you encountered, and that you want 4 of the same nuts in the kit, but with a smaller seat flange for more clearence. They don't cost much.

Thanks for the reply. I am thinking about running the smaller flange nuts because i really don't wanna mess with the brand new internals of this head, because if something was to brake, i woulnd't have any chance for a replacement because of the spring seat being modified. Should i order all 10 of the nuts or just order as many as i need? I am running the green model turbo and wil be making around 450 for HP, would running the smaller nuts be risking anything? thanks for the reply

 

[2gAWDTalon]

I am confused... the washers are bigger or the same size as the nuts... how would the washers fit and not the nuts.

 

[SFRacingGST]

the washers wouldn't fit on the same 4 that the bolts wouldn't, i had to pull the studs and place the washers on the head and then thread them into the block inorder the get all the washers on, not the same 4 that were giving me problem with the washers are giving me problem with the nuts not clearing the spring.

 

[speedmaster747]

I have seen this problems before with aftermarket springs, but the nut should clear the spring.

 

[snox135]

Have you called SBR and asked them? If I was you they would be the first people I would contact.

 

[TalonD27A]

Just order the 4 you need. You don't need to call anyone about the problem because there isn't anything they can do but what I suggested. The four you should be having trouble with are the center upper and lower, the far bottom left, and the far top right.
One of the things my company does is headwork for many types of cars including Mitsubishi's and this isn't uncommon. Not all manufactures can make all their parts to work with every other aftermarket company, hence the problem when you upgraded your valvetrain to Crower and then you have ARP hardware that was made around stock internals. ARP would know that you or anyone else were going to use Crower, Ferrea, Supertech, HKS, etc.
If you look at your picture you can see the flange portion of the nut that would touch the spring seat. If that is notched out, which is what we do before we assemble a customer head that is using ARP hardware, it will clear the nuts that come with ARP kit. That causes no problems with the valve train if done properly. The flange nut might touch the spring, but the spring does move a little and should move out of the way. Some companies valve spring seats, like Rev, require the smaller ARP nuts and the notching of the spring seat, but the Crower seats shouldn't unless he has changed his design.
Since you don't want to modify your seats, call ARP on Monday and order the nuts. Then if you still have a problem notch out the seats and let that be the end of it.

 

[SFRacingGST]

thanks for the info, i will call them in the morning

 

[TalonD27A]

Thanks for the reply. I am thinking about running the smaller flange nuts because i really don't wanna mess with the brand new internals of this head, because if something was to brake, i woulnd't have any chance for a replacement because of the spring seat being modified. Should i order all 10 of the nuts or just order as many as i need? I am running the green model turbo and wil be making around 450 for HP, would running the smaller nuts be risking anything? thanks for the reply

I didn't answer your hp question...No. I usually run the exact hardware (smaller nuts on those 4 with the problems) on cars that run the FP3065 or GT35R and haven't had a problem.

 

[SFRacingGST]

you think i could get away with hitting up the 4 nuts on a grinder trimming the edges of the flange nut a hair? Let me know what you think

 

[96gsdsm]

When I bolted my head on I had the same problem... I had 2 guys hold the head just a hair above the studs while I lined up everything... then had them lower it so that there was barely enough threads to catch those 4 PITA bolts.

Then I tightened them as quickly/evenly as I could before my friends started swearing at me about how heavy it was.

It involves some manuevering but I've found it is possible.

The easiest thing would be to order the smaller bolts... but I was hell-bent on using what I had, so I found a way to make everything fit.

Good luck with whatever approach you take.

 

[phillabaum03]

I pounded mine down in....Havent had a problem and i used that theroy on 2 motors.

 

[TalonD27A]

you think i could get away with hitting up the 4 nuts on a grinder trimming the edges of the flange nut a hair? Let me know what you think

I wouldn't do that since the smaller nuts are available. I don't remember how much they are retail, but they should be $25 or less. Not really worth the risk IMO. Grinding the spring seat is one thing, but grinding the nut that hold your high hp engines cylinder head down is another.