Are these timing marks correct?

[0r1landoDSM]

<a href="http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s94/sageninja124/?action=view&amp;current=0118180653.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s94/sageninja124/0118180653.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

the dowel pins are in opposite direction but in the book the dowel pins are both facing upward. the head is new not the original head for this motor what do i do?

 

[Alan11]

dowel pins always go up. Both.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

soo why is this happening? i cant get both of them up

 

[dsmlover07]

They look ok from up here what about down there?

 

[Alan11]

yes you can.. Without the belt on. Put your pistons in the middle of the Block. That way you can turn the exhaust cam by itself.
In other words rotate the exhaust cam without hitting the valves with the pistons.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

They look ok from up here what about down there?

im actually having a mecahnic do my timing belt and he cant figure out why both dowel pins cant face upward, the car is in top dead center

 

[bryanwheat]

Both dowels need to be straight up as mentioned.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

yes you can.. Without the belt on. Put your pistons in the middle of the Block. That way you can turn the exhaust cam by itself.
In other words rotate the exhaust cam without hitting the valves with the pistons.

so if i keep rotating the exhaust cam, it will be aligned?

 

[Hal]

Is the exhaust cam gear on backwards, ie the side facing out should go against the cam?

If he can't figure out the problem, I wonder if he's qualified to do the timing belt in the first place?

 

[boosteclipse]

If you are trying to rotate the cam while T.D.C., then you are causing some valves to make contact with a piston. Dont try forcing the cam around or you will bend a valve. As stated above set the crank so all pistons are mid way of the cylinders, then try rotating the camshaft.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

Is the exhaust cam gear on backwards, ie the side facing out should go against the cam?

to be honest i dont know, the mechanic told me that he didnt see any of the timing marks on the other side of the cam's..

 

[Shadow21]

If the engine is at TDC and you try to rotate the exhaust cam by itself it will hit the piston, thats why you cant get it to turn. Turn the crankshaft 180 deg either way and try to turn that exhaust cam. See how that goes for ya. If not, you have another issue.

 

[Alan11]

so if i keep rotating the exhaust cam, it will be aligned?

Rotate the exhaust cam 180* freely (without breaking anything in the engine and head) until the dowel pin is up. Remove the crank sprocket from TDC for now.

Is the exhaust cam gear on backwards, ie the side facing out should go against the cam?

If he can't figure out the problem, I wonder if he's qualified to do the timing belt in the first place?

I believe that the cam Gear can only be facing one way so its not that.

I agree on the second part, if this "mechanic" cannot do the timing belt job i would recommend to post all the timing marks(cams,crank.oil pump, and balance shaft) in these forum so we can see.

 

[bryanwheat]

I say it's time to take it to another mechanic.

 

[Alan11]

Here. Help yourself http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/414002-installing-timing-belt.html

http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/Tbelt5.jpg

 

[jimbob_843]

Take the belt off and rotate that exhaust cam until the dowel faces up and the male and female grooves meet between the gears. Boom cams are set, then align the crank and oil pump to their marks. Tensioner should be compressed with a pin holding. Tension belt with pulley, then rotate with the crank bolt and finally tension again and remove pin. Done.

 

[dsmlover07]

Straight up, ddi my first tb job, right after i changed my oil in 2001, since then its been a piece of cake, take your time.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

If the engine is at TDC and you try to rotate the exhaust cam by itself it will hit the piston, thats why you cant get it to turn. Turn the crankshaft 180 deg either way and try to turn that exhaust cam. See how that goes for ya. If not, you have another issue.

so for a fact the everything should aline if i keep turning the exhaust cam right? if not then what other issues can there be? i use these same gears on my old head and car ran fine before. now im using a new head

 

[boosteclipse]

Yes! they will line up as long as the pistons are all down. If you know for sure they are and the cam still wont turn you have issues in the head.

 

[romeen]

so for a fact the everything should aline if i keep turning the exhaust cam right? if not then what other issues can there be? i use these same gears on my old head and car ran fine before. now im using a new head

Yes. But as others have already mentioned, the crank needs to be rotated so that all of the pistons are in the middle of their stroke. Remove t-belt, rotate crank to position pistons in mid-cylinder, rotate exhaust cam to proper position with dowel up, reinstall belt and tension properly.

Only other thing I can think of is if the dowel pin has broken off allowing the cam gear to rotate free from the camshaft. I've never seen this but they can bend when breaking loose the cam gear bolt so I suppose it's possible.

Frankly, I agree with others that this mechanic doesn't sound very qualified to be doing this.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Look at your exhaust cam gear carefully and you will see that there are two marks straight across from each other. If your "mechanic" is trying to line up the mark on the wrong side then your exhaust gear will be 180 degrees off. Take The timing belt off, rotate crank till psitons are all in the center, rotate your exhaust gear 180 degrees till both dowels are up and the mark on the opposite side of the mark on the exhaust gear that your trying to use right now lines up with the intake mark. Then check your bottom mark and make sure its good then rotate the crank 360 degrees a few times to be sure nothing is hitting and you should be good.

 

[Dsmkauai]

My ? Is why was the timing belt removed before putting motor in time in the first place. I would honestly get my car outta there ASAP. This the main reason I became a tech, I never wanted some jerk mechanic breaking my cars.

 

[0r1landoDSM]

Yes. But as others have already mentioned, the crank needs to be rotated so that all of the pistons are in the middle of their stroke. Remove t-belt, rotate crank to position pistons in mid-cylinder, rotate exhaust cam to proper position with dowel up, reinstall belt and tension properly.

Only other thing I can think of is if the dowel pin has broken off allowing the cam gear to rotate free from the camshaft. I've never seen this but they can bend when breaking loose the cam gear bolt so I suppose it's possible.

Frankly, I agree with others that this mechanic doesn't sound very qualified to be doing this.

im sorry to keep asking the same question more then once but i want to make sure, and hopefully ill get my car running again tomorrow. i invested alot of money into it and havent driven it in a few months. now that i know for a fact that it will line up i feel relieved.. the dowel pin is fine, and there is no issues with the head.

Look at your exhaust cam gear carefully and you will see that there are two marks straight across from each other. If your "mechanic" is trying to line up the mark on the wrong side then your exhaust gear will be 180 degrees off. Take The timing belt off, rotate crank till psitons are all in the center, rotate your exhaust gear 180 degrees till both dowels are up and the mark on the opposite side of the mark on the exhaust gear that your trying to use right now lines up with the intake mark. Then check your bottom mark and make sure its good then rotate the crank 360 degrees a few times to be sure nothing is hitting and you should be good.

i believe the marks are only on one side of the same cam gears so i dont think thats possible to be 180 degrees off. both mark's are there & i understand that both of the dowel pins will line up if i turn the exhaust cam 180 degrees but the marks wont line up. once when the exhaust cam dowel pin is upwards the mark should be in the 9'oclock position. once i get both dowel pins upwards what should i do next?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Well idk but I have the gears off my one of my 4g63s engines right hear in front of me and there is clearly two marks on the exhaust gear. They are directly across from each other. Same goes for the exhaust gear that is on my dd as well. Just trying to help out.

 

[romeen]

When the dowel pins are up the exhaust cam still needs to be rotated a little bit clockwise to line up the inner marks (you have to overcome the resistance from the valve springs to get it lined up). Rotate CW with a 17mm wrench on the cam gear bolt to line up marks then slip the belt over as shown in the VFAQ.

Edit: Don't worry about the outer marks. The only ones you use are the inner marks: at 3 o'clock position on the exhaust and 9 o'clock on the intake. In your pic, the mark on the exhaust side that is marked in yellow is NOT the one you use.