Are my timing marks ok?

[dsmoverboosted]

Ok so I was checking out my timing marks after I swaped a new head in the car and this is what I saw.

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Now I know my oil pump is off a bit but my issue is with the crank sprocket. I have read that the timing mark on the 90-92 cars is on the right (circled in blue) and on 93-94 cars is on the left (circled in red). I have a 91 tsi and my crank sprocket lines up with the 93-94 timing mark.

Now if I was off by this far I would have bent a valve right? Well I did the old tie the cam gears to the hood trick when I swapped in the new head and I put everything together and fired up the car with out double checking my timing marks first (I know it was dumb, say what you will) and the car ran for about 3 minutes total before I got scared and paranoid and checked the timing.

When I saw this I did a leakdown test and none of my valves are bent (no air escaping to the exasut or intake). What I want to know is, is my crank in the right spot or did I just get lucky with my valves? Also can I leave My oil pump sproket in the position its in right now or would it cause trouble?

I hope I explained everything ok. Thanks Axe

 

[boosted_91_tsi]

All of the marks should be lined up. The only exception to this is with the oil pump sproket IF the balance shafts are removed. I know it can take a few turns to line everything up but I cannot recall ever seeing the cams lined up and nothing else. You could try rotating everything a few times to see if it lines up. Should take no more than 6 complete revolutions of the crank.

 

[GVR4592]

Try rotating the engine a few time as suggested by boosted_91_tsi, sometimes it takes a few rotations to get everthing lined up.

The plate at the back of the crank sprocket with the timing mark on it, can become damaged and rotate independently of the crank sprocket causing the timing marks to appear misaligned. That might be something else to check.

 

[dsmoverboosted]

well I rotated the crank 10 times and the crank sproket in always in the same spot when the cams are lined up, the only difference is the oil pump and this is as close as it gets to the timing mark. My balance shafts are not removed by would it cause any damage leaving the oil pump 1-2 teeth off?

So if my compression and leakdown are ok and everything drives ok it should be fine?

 

[dsmoverboosted]

anyone else maybe know why my timing is like this? I really need to get my car running and I dont want to adjust the timing if it is right. Is it possible that the plate behind the sproket is loose or moved? Would I not have bent some valves if my timing was this off?

 

[jott5555]

my suggestion is your right there already doing this job.. remove everthing.. pull your front case off cut the rear balance shaft off so its a stub and reassemble everthing with new gasket's, then remove the belt for the front Balance shaft but leave it in there and leave the tensioner in wiht the bolt or else you will leak some oil.. while the front case is out you may wanna replace the front main seal as well its a easy time to do it..

then put everthing back together and you dont have to worry where your oil pump sproket is, if its not lined up wiht the shafts in you will be whats called "out of phase" and your car will vibrate horrably and eventully throw the t-belt and you will have to redo it all again anyway.. another good reason to remove the bs stuff now is that it will also eventully go out and well.. same result you will have to do it all again..

 

[dsmoverboosted]

well im kinda in a hurry to get the car running so ill probably skip all the extras. So I should get the pump alinged ok thats simple enough but what about my crank timing? Thats my main concern because i dont want to change it just to have the valves bend.

Just to give a brief on my issue my crank sproket is alinged with the red circle whitch is the 93-94 timing mark which is about 6 teeth away from the blue circle which is the 90-92 timing mark. My car is a 91 and I have ran my engine for 3 minutes like this with no bent valves (I did a leakdown test).

I just need to know if there is anyother way to check the crank timing? I put a small straight peice of metal in cylindar one through the spark plug opening and the piston reaches max hieght when the cam gears line up so it seems like its at tdc. Also If i skipped 6 teeth would i have not bent some valves? Would the car even start if it was 6 teeth off because of spark timing being so off?

 

[4BangR-x]

did you take a flat object and position it so both ends are over a cam bolt? then line up your cam pulley marks right under the flat object, its hard to tell in the pics.

 

[dsmoverboosted]

did you take a flat object and position it so both ends are over a cam bolt? then line up your cam pulley marks right under the flat object, its hard to tell in the pics.

I never accually took off my timing belt i just tied the gears to the hood with bungee cords. So I am basically checking my timing now and I cant tell if the crank sprocket is ok

 

[dsmoverboosted]

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here are 2 other pictures i took of the crank and oil sprokets lining up. I didnt show them because The oil pump is not lined up at all but evey time I line up the cam gears the crank sproket is in the same postion (I guess it should be the same every time)

 

[4BangR-x]

If i were you i wouldnt remove the balance shafts till everything ran good and is aligned correctly.

In the process of taking the head off, even though you tied it, the belt COULD have slipped even though you didnt notice. Now if you havnt bent a valve already your not going to. Again if it were me and you havnt changed the timing belt in the last 50000 miles, now would be a good time.

 

[jott5555]

i understand your trying to do this quickly.. but quick dosent have to mean half @$$ed..

the two red dots need to line up.. at the same time as the cam gears are lined up and the oil pump lined up...

 

[Talesin]

Easy way would be to pull the spark plug out of cylinder #1, stick a long screwdriver inside, and slowly turn the crank until it's at TDC. Then check the crank timing mark. If the cam gears are lined up (use a straightedge, make sure the line goes through the middle of the camshaft bolts) at TDC, then the crank pulley might just be screwed up... can a 7-bolt crank fit into a six-bolt block? Also, does it look like the cam pegs are pointed at 6:00 in that picture up top, rather than 12:00?

 

[dsmoverboosted]

Easy way would be to pull the spark plug out of cylinder #1, stick a long screwdriver inside, and slowly turn the crank until it's at TDC. Then check the crank timing mark. If the cam gears are lined up (use a straightedge, make sure the line goes through the middle of the camshaft bolts) at TDC, then the crank pulley might just be screwed up... can a 7-bolt crank fit into a six-bolt block? Also, does it look like the cam pegs are pointed at 6:00 in that picture up top, rather than 12:00?

I did the screwdriver thing and the piston hit its max height when the cam gears lined up. I didn't take a ruler and see if the 4 marks where all even but to the naked eye they where and I can tell you they where not 6 teeth off.

And yes my dowl pins are at 12 o'clock thats white out at 6o'clock. I even tried lining up the white out marks at 12 but the crank was way off so that would be wrong.

i understand your trying to do this quickly.. but quick dosent have to mean half @$$ed..

the two red dots need to line up.. at the same time as the cam gears are lined up and the oil pump lined up...

Sure I want my car running soon but I'm not trying to half ass it anymore I just it all right and my issue is I ran the car like this for 3 minutes and i didn't bend a valve, I took off all the rocker arms and shot compressed air in the sparkplug holes and I got 0 leakdown past the valves at 125 psi.

I know where the crank should line up, thats why I started this thread. Everything I have done to see if the crank is lined up tells me the crank is lined up except the crank sproket itself. Would I have not bent a valve if I were this off? Would the piston not be at tdc 6 teeth before the cam lined up?

If i were you i wouldnt remove the balance shafts till everything ran good and is aligned correctly.

In the process of taking the head off, even though you tied it, the belt COULD have slipped even though you didnt notice. Now if you havnt bent a valve already your not going to. Again if it were me and you havnt changed the timing belt in the last 50000 miles, now would be a good time.

I'm not planning on removing the bs. Like I stated I ran the engine like this for 3 minutes and the valves are fine. And my timing belt was changed 50000 km's so it still has another 50000 km's before replacement (It still looks brand new with no sighn of wear at all)