Anyone running evo 3 16g with stock smic

[calico]

Just curious if anyone is running an evo 3 16g with the stock smic on 4g63 motor? What are the pros/cons to this versus going with a fmic? I would like to keep the stock smic for the sleeper look.

 

[blkwidow]

It could heatsoak after some hard driving. I guess a pro would be going for the sleeper look you want.

 

[bob123131]

Yea i ran it with a stock sidemount for awhile and it is fine but you will not be able to effiecently run much boost. Running like 20 psi on a stock sm is like running without an intercooler on you stock t25. You can run 20 though if you really wanted to. What i would suggest is getting a supra side mount intercooler they resemble the stock look to those who arnt dsmer's and will be more than enough for your evo 3 16 right now. You can pick them up for not too much and are realatively easy to install. I have also seen some dsmer's you cut and weld 2 stock side mounts together to increase effiencency. I do not know much about these but you could look into it. It would not be what i would go with though.

 

[bob123131]

Also never really thoguht about this much but if you are willign to spend ridiculas amounts of money to stay stock sidemount and don care about your engine bay looking sleeper you could use a under the hood air to water intercooler i belive but not positive or intercooler spray. you would most likely have to custom make the sprayer to fit a stock side mount though and this would suck for daily driving since you would have to fill up after every few pulls with buddies and stuff.

 

[Mitchel63]

I wouldn't do it. I am currently running an EVO3 and a HRC sidemount which is pretty freaking large for a SMIC. It is comparable to the Supra SMIC. Even with an upgraded sidemount, it would heatsoak FAST! I couldn't run more than 15psi without getting a few degrees of timing retard from knock....so I could only imagine how bad it would be with the stocker. I ended up adding meth injection to the equation and am able to run as much boost as an EVO3 will make. That might be an option for you as well....it is fairly simple to do, but I am not sure it would be enough to make up for a stock intercooler. An air to water intercooler isn't a bad idea. They get pricey once you factor everything in though.....and can be a PITA at times on a street car.

 

[got_Dsm_NY]

its gonna heat soak...it happened to me you can probably get the best boost in like 1st and 2nd from there on you aint gonna be boosting right...if you wanna keep the sleeper look i would go with a supra smic...just an opinion

 

[bob123131]

Meth injection is a great idea but probably not going to save you from the stock sidemount. What are you goals? If its 550cc and an safc at 15 to 20 psi go supra sidemount and have fun if you are planning on going internals and something like 25psi really pushing the evo 3 get the supra and meth injection or nitrous spray. I would suggest if you plan to go that big to get a fmic though.

 

[calico]

The car will be a street driven daily driver. I am not familar with "heat soak"...sounds bad.
I probably will get a fmic installed at the same time...unless this supra smic will bolt on fairly painless and is cheap. Otherwise...i'll just get the ebay fmic everyone else is getting.
thanks for the info........

 

[Billy6411]

I had a stock sidemount and all piping with my evo 3 16g for wayy to longg.By the time air gets to the engine it is way too hot especially after a couple of pulls, just got the front mount on this past weekend and it makes a world of diffrence.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I ran my E3 on the stock sidemount at 20psi for a few months. It only gained 10hp with a front mount. But yes, it heatsoaked quite fast, by the top of second gear it was done.

 

[slipstream808]

Heatsoak:

When air comes out of the turbo, it's hotter than ambient air temps. OK, so lets make some numbers up here.

Engine bay temps are 100 degrees F and the turbo is at 70% efficiency. So, air coming out of the turbo is now a blistering 130F!! That's just too damn hot for the engine to run right and not get knock. So you get that little bugger of an intercooler in there and it cools down the temps to something more "normal". Problem is, there's a LOT of hot air going through there and less cool air going through it on the outside. So what happens to an object that is getting more heat than cold applied to it?!?! IT HEATS UUUP!!! YYAAAAAYYYY!!!

Oh wait not... BOOOOOO!!!

So there ya go, the intercooler that is getting more heat to it than cool air starts to heat up and it starts doing its job less and less. Permitted to go for a long enough time, it would reach an equilibrium where it would be a bit cooler than the hot air out of the turbo, but much warmer than you want it to be. So it ends up doing a MUCH crappier job of cooling down the air before it gets to your engine. Hence, the intercooler has become "heatsoaked". And yes, you can start on a cold day and run the crap outta your car, get out and put your hand on the stock SMIC, and vioala, it's warm!

Now, let it be said heatsoak is a almost a relative term. Being that it is what I said above, an intercooler can heat up and reach a nice inbetween temperature where you could run it around a track aaallll day and it'd be good. We generally consider it heatsoaked at the point where it can't cool down the air enough, and knock starts to occur. This is what will happen with your stock SMIC and that 16g.

Now before you say something like "What about a turbo that heats up the air less due to better efficiency?" Well say you get a turbo that runs more air at 80%. Well great and fine and dandy, it heats up the air less. But it's flowing MORE air than that other turbo did, and it'll heatsoak that intercooler faster. It may or may not get it as hot, but it'll heat it up faster.

That EVO 16g will push far more air into that intercooler and heat it up more than the T-25 could and also a LOT faster. This also makes the car slower than it could be with cooler air entering the engine.

Hope that helps and happy boosting!!!

 

[S Ladd]

I "think" wih a FMIC, your throttle response will not be as good.

 

[OSXer]

I'm running an E16g on the stock sidemount currently. I am going to be upgrading to a front mount sometime before next spring though. I'm not to concerned about the immediate future since the weather is getting colder and the tracks are shutting down due to the changing seasons where I live. I run 20 psi and can sustain a tuning with third gear pulls and short cools downs (4-8 minutes) between runs with minimal, if any knock. If I were banging 1st through 4th I definately would expect heatsoaking to occur. I DD my talon as well and there's no heatsoaking issues from that. A 2-3 pull when getting on the freeway, boosting through some curvy roads, ect, never presents a problem. In conclusion, I wouldn't worry about running it on the SMIC, but do think about getting a front mount at some point so you can really wake up your car.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Yeah, I was running it for a while, but yeah, I got tired of the heatsoak... pull after pull, run after run, it was useless... I upgraded to the Spearco FM, and I love it... the throttle response is better than before.... and whoever said that it gets worse in the earlier post could be right, but that is if its the long route, or the pipes diameter are way to big... I have the short route piping, so I have no worries, nor any problems... just a big difference, and a huge HP gain... Just try it for yourself...

 

[blkwidow]

Why would his throttle response suffer?

 

[elfroggo]

Eh, the thinking is that the larger volume due to large intercooler will delay throttle response since it takes more time for that volume to get pressurized.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

^It effects spool time, not throttle response. If you want I can post a dyno chart that shows front mount vs sidemount, the lag is very clearly shown in the torque curve.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

^It effects spool time, not throttle response. If you want I can post a dyno chart that shows front mount vs sidemount, the lag is very clearly shown in the torque curve.

Sure post 'em up. Do you have long route?
And have you gotten a new UICP yet? hmm, I think I just answered my first question..

 

[elfroggo]

Spool time and throttle response would be seen as similar effects. If you delay the spool, then the throttle (power) comes on later. Thus delayed throttle response. Semantics perhaps.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Spool time and throttle response would be seen as similar effects. If you delay the spool, then the throttle (power) comes on later. Thus delayed throttle response. Semantics perhaps.

Not at all. Slow throttle response is when you hit the throttle and the engine takes a second to respond. The response of the engine is unchanged, the turbo just spools slower.

This is a stock sidemount (red) vs a long route front mount. Don't mind the huge gain in the mid range, that was from upping from 18psi to 20psi. Notice the high end gain is almost nil. The only part that is actually important is where its spooling, you can see the torque comes on marginally later.

Yes I got a new UICP, but this dyno was with the stock one. The new one made no difference whatsoever.

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[PieEyedPiper]

The UICP was kind of just a shot in the dark. Too bad that wasn't the last piece to the puzzle. Thanks for that graph though.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I might redyno this weekend. I have a 3" catback now (custom yo, only 1 bend and no muffler), so there aren't any restrictions left. If it doesn't put down 300-320hp then there's just something wrong with the car.

But to sum up the dyno chart. For only 1 pull at a time, a FMIC made very little difference over the stock sidemount at 18psi on an Evo 3.

 

[blkwidow]

Not at all. Slow throttle response is when you hit the throttle and the engine takes a second to respond. The response of the engine is unchanged, the turbo just spools slower.

This is a stock sidemount (red) vs a long route front mount. Don't mind the huge gain in the mid range, that was from upping from 18psi to 20psi. Notice the high end gain is almost nil. The only part that is actually important is where its spooling, you can see the torque comes on marginally later.

Yes I got a new UICP, but this dyno was with the stock one. The new one made no difference whatsoever.

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Exactly what I was talking about. Throttle response would be the same, unless you somehow converted to a Drive by wire cabless throttle.

 

[JayRolla]

custom yo, only 1 bend and no muffler

Damn that must hang low, my custom 3" has like 3 bends and they where needed to have it tuck under the body nice. Thats just like a truck with a straight pipe. Nice can you post a pic I would like to see how you routed it.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

It sits about 3" higher up than my Buschur did.

Its different colors because we didn't have straight stainless so the straight section is aluminized. We're redoing it in the spring in 4" aluminum (that's right, aluminum).

I wouldn't recommend this on a DD, it sounds exactly like an open dp and its just as loud.

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