ECMlink Another AEM Wideband Calibration Help Thread

[kyler021]

Hey guys,

I can't really find a clear answer out there on the AEM calibration values in ECMLink for AEM PN 30-4110 (Classic Wideband). Yes, I've watched this video: ECMLink AEM WB Calibration, read the ECMLink writeup about how AEM widebands don't play well ECMLink. I've read pretty much every DSMTuners forums post on this issue. I'm kinda lost at this point.

My wideband has never really read accurately, no matter what values I put into it (Very possible it's user error). I have the wideband setup correctly in ECMLink, minus the calibration values. I just took it out and did my 2500-4500RPM pull for my tuner, and he mentioned that my AEM WB in the log was going extremely rich (9.8 AFR) however when I watched the gauge, it never went below 11AFR.

Here's the voltage values for my wideband (page 11): https://documents.aemelectronics.com/64fa707c21a65cf90802b55982b08abbdde8ee80.pdf
I did what the video said at the top of this post (I put the voltage and lambda values for 11AFR for min and 14.7AFR for max). I noticed that once it wanted to go less than 11AFR in the log, it just went straight to 9.8AFR. I also attached the log to this post.

Have you guys found any voltage and lambda values that worked for you for this part number? And do any of the preset settings in DSMLink work with this wideband?

Thanks guys,
Kyle

 

[dwb]

Any idea which brand sensor you have? I'm running a diffrrent model AEM but the FAE sensor would display fine on the gauge but was all over the board in ECMLink. I even made a filter as suggested from ECMTuning and was no better. Once I switched to the Bosch sensor, suggested by AEM support, everything worked perfectly without any fine tuning.

 

[kyler021]

Any idea which brand sensor you have?

I have the Bosch sensor as well. Before I went about calibrating it, it still read incorrectly even on this sensor.

I did have better results after putting in different settings yesterday. At least it wasn't going super rich. The sensor saw a low of 10.9 and the video I took of the sensor said 10.6 at that time. Here's the settings I put in.

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[nice97civic]

for starters, volt range should be 0-5, not 0-4.

 

[kyler021]

for starters, volt range should be 0-5, not 0-4.

Gotcha, I just put that value in because the 1.23 lambda correlates with the 4V, if that makes any sense. This table from AEM doesn't go past 18.50AFR and ECMLink doesn't allow 3 decimal places in the volt or lambda spaces.

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[Anfurnyy]

If you have your wideband gauge grounded to chassis ground instead of sensor / ECU ground you can have voltage offset as well which usually causes most of the offset issues.

 

[kyler021]

If you have your wideband gauge grounded to chassis ground instead of sensor / ECU ground you can have voltage offset as well which usually causes most of the offset issues.

There's not a dedicated sensor ground wire attached to this wideband I don't think... I'm pretty sure the X-Series does though. Do you mean instead of connecting the black chassis ground wire directly to the chassis, connect it to the sensor ground on the ECU?

 

[Anfurnyy]

There's not a dedicated sensor ground wire attached to this wideband I don't think... I'm pretty sure the X-Series does though. Do you mean instead of connecting the black chassis ground wire directly to the chassis, connect it to the sensor ground on the ECU?

I'd have to read through some documents and old posts but IIRC you should be able to wire the ground of just the gauge to sensor ground on the ECU so that both the ECU and gauge have the same ground reference so there's not any offset between the 2.

Just make sure not to wire the actual wideband sensor circuit ground to the ECU ground cause that will most likely fry your ECU.

Pretty sure this is how I had mine setup in my 1g before switching to Link G4+ and a CANlambda and I didn't have any issues.

Also like someone else mentioned, make sure your voltage scaling is setup right in Link too.

 

[kyler021]

Also like someone else mentioned, make sure your voltage scaling is setup right in Link too.

I think this is the main problem I had... How should I go about doing this? Because a lot of the lambda numbers and voltage outputs for the sensor have 3 decimal places in the AEM paperwork, meanwhile ECMLink only allows 2 decimal places, so I guess it'll always be a little off? Or should I just estimate what I think it should be?

I'd have to read through some documents and old posts but IIRC you should be able to wire the ground of just the gauge to sensor ground on the ECU so that both the ECU and gauge have the same ground reference so there's not any offset between the 2.

I'll try and give this a look too. I'm not the one who wired it, so I'm not totally sure how things are wired.

 

[nice97civic]

Just set your min voltage to 0 and your max voltage to 5

 

[nice97civic]

You could also try not setting it up as linear. It's been a while since I used an AEM gauge so not sure if this is required or recommended but doing it non-linear removes the voltage requirement.

 

[ItsTwan309]

I had to get creative with my Series X. Couldnt get it to read correct. my min max V and Lam are min 0.85V 0.74Lam Max 3.12V 1.0Lam I set this based off the raw voltages. I tried 0-5V and it wasnt even close

 

[nice97civic]

Well I stand corrected then .

 

[ItsTwan309]

that was just me haha the older styles are different. I gave mine away and just got the X because it was completely unreliable. Im sure someone smarter than I could get it to work.
I think like stated above, he needs to verify he is on P0 and P1
should be something like 0V=0.68lam and 4.99V=1.37lam if you continue the scale

 

[We're on Boost]

I'll try and give this a look too. I'm not the one who wired it, so I'm not totally sure how things are wired.

The 30-4110 only has one ground wire and it is a chassis ground, a power ground. So you can't connect it to the ecu sensor ground input - it would put too much current through the sensor ground circuit in the ecu. It has to connect to the chassis.

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I think this is the main problem I had... How should I go about doing this? Because a lot of the lambda numbers and voltage outputs for the sensor have 3 decimal places in the AEM paperwork, meanwhile ECMLink only allows 2 decimal places, so I guess it'll always be a little off? Or should I just estimate what I think it should be?

2 decimal places is enough for this. You don't have to worry about not having the 3rd decimal place. That's the least of your worries.
The voltage and lambda numbers you show in post #3 are correct per the AEM chart, but a lot of people have found that the chart numbers don't actually work right.
That's why people sometimes use the lock in open loop method to find their own numbers for volts versus AFR.
That's what we did with OhhShmit's car, which has a "Classic" type AEM wideband. We first tried setting it up per the chart like you show in post #3 and that was wrong. Then we tried some of the other presets and they were wrong.
Then we used the lock in open loop method and got numbers that seemed ok, but really you can only verify it at around 14.7 in closed loop. In the extreme rich region there's nothing to really verify correctness. His car has a for real narrow band O2 sensor, which really helps in the stoic region. Better than just simulating O2 with the wideband.

So he ran his car for about a week with our newly found volts vs AFR numbers, things seemed ok, and then we noticed the logged AFRs were starting to drift a little from what they were, in closed loop where you can tell right or wrong (sort of). As if the wideband was not stable.
So I think the bottom line is, you gotta have a wideband that a decent number of people have found to be reliably accurate, and the 30-4110 is not one of those. Another thing that helps is as I said already, it's better to have a real narrow band to do the narrow band function, instead of simulating it from the wideband. Locate the wideband in the downpipe, and put the narrow band in the regular O2 housing location.

Anyway when we used the lock in open loop method to get our own numbers for OhhShmit, we had it locked in open loop for both pairs of numbers, both the rich and the lean pairs. We didn't want to run it so rich or so lean that it would be mis-firing or any other bad running behavior. At a fast idle we went rich to a gauge AFR of 11.6. Any richer than that and it didn't run clean enough. On the lean end we went up to 16.2 on the gauge with clean running. We got 3.82 raw volts at 16.2 AFR and 1.51 volts at 11.6 AFR. Converted AFR to Lambda using the AEM chart (you can interpolate). Put the numbers into the LinWideband scaling. And he is still going with those numbers, although as I said they have drifted a little, so probably will need to do it again. In the end I think he will buy a different wideband. He is using the 1g EGRtemp input which is a crummy input. Your 2g Rear O2 input is a better input so you might have better results.

Also, when I put your post #3 numbers into the scaling in your log, it looks kind of reasonable. It might actually be pretty close.
You could try to verify it with the lock in open loop method at 2 points.
For your lean point, don't just assume that closed loop running is at lambda 1 like that video says. Do an open loop point at a lean AFR.
We didn't use an SD cell to make it richer and leaner. We used Global deadtime. You could also use Global Fuel. Use "Save changes to ecu as they are made".

Don't worry that your 2 points are not at the very top and bottom of the scale. Remember that in math and geometry, 2 points define a line of infinite length. And that's how the right side of that scaling chart works. The Limits of the line are determined on the left side of that chart. There you can either leave the default numbers in it, or you can put in 10 and 18 like you did in post #3.

 

[We're on Boost]

BTW I tried OhhShmit's scaling in your log from post #1 and it doesn't look right for yours.
So to verify your scaling, I think you would need to come up with your own numbers by the lock in open loop method.

 

[kyler021]

Anyway when we used the lock in open loop method to get our own numbers for OhhShmit, we had it locked in open loop for both pairs of numbers, both the rich and the lean pairs. We didn't want to run it so rich or so lean that it would be mis-firing or any other bad running behavior. At a fast idle we went rich to a gauge AFR of 11.6. Any richer than that and it didn't run clean enough. On the lean end we went up to 16.2 on the gauge with clean running. We got 3.82 raw volts at 16.2 AFR and 1.51 volts at 11.6 AFR. Converted AFR to Lambda using the AEM chart (you can interpolate). Put the numbers into the LinWideband scaling. And he is still going with those numbers, although as I said they have drifted a little, so probably will need to do it again. In the end I think he will buy a different wideband. He is using the 1g EGRtemp input which is a crummy input. Your 2g Rear O2 input is a better input so you might have better results.

Okay... Let me see if I understand this...

So, I need to lock in open loop, find the points (rich and lean) where it will still run normally without any weird behaviors, log the wideband voltage at those points and plug that AFR and voltage into the boxes on the calibration for the wideband? And even then, the gauge can fall out of calibration eventually. Man, I love this car hahaha.

Also, when I had it calibrated to the 11AFR - 14.7AFR like the video shows, the wideband went extremely rich (9.8AFR) as soon as it wanted to pass the 11AFR threshold. Theoretically, if I were to find these lean and rich points, and let's say the rich point is 11.6 like in OhhShmit's case. If the car went past the 11.6 threshold (because it's in the tuning stage still, so I think he'll have to richen it up to be safe), wouldn't it just freak out again and display a really wrong reading? I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding all of this. This is honestly making me happy that I didn't try tuning my car myself.

This seems like it may be way above my knowledge level. I'm not sure if I want to continue with this wideband at this point. Do you have any experience with the X-Series gauge? If so, was it less of a hassle than this one? I really don't want to take the easy way out but if the wideband will just constantly fall out of calibration then what even is the point?

Kyle

 

[We're on Boost]

So, I need to lock in open loop, find the points (rich and lean) where it will still run normally without any weird behaviors, log the wideband voltage at those points and plug that AFR and voltage into the boxes on the calibration for the wideband? And even then, the gauge can fall out of calibration eventually. Man, I love this car hahaha.

Right

Also, when I had it calibrated to the 11AFR - 14.7AFR like the video shows, the wideband went extremely rich (9.8AFR) as soon as it wanted to pass the 11AFR threshold. Theoretically, if I were to find these lean and rich points, and let's say the rich point is 11.6 like in OhhShmit's case. If the car went past the 11.6 threshold (because it's in the tuning stage still, so I think he'll have to richen it up to be safe), wouldn't it just freak out again and display a really wrong reading?

I know what you mean about wondering what happens when you go past either of the 2 points, because I've never found anything in the help or the wikis where it really says what happens, so I wondered about that too until I had a chance to check it out for myself. But the scaling does continue past the 2 points in both directions. It continues on the same line that you defined with your 2 points.

To check that out again right now with your log, I made a line in GeoGebra from 2 points picked out of your log.
Point A was x=1.57 (volts) y=12.0 (AFR)
Point C was x=2.88 (volts) y=16.5 (AFR)
Then I went in the log to where the AFR is super low, the log says 8.5 AFR at 0.53 raw volts.
Then I checked to see if that is still on the same line. (See the screenshot, Point H)
It's mighty close, a 0.53 volts value (x) on that line gives you 8.43 AFR (y). Log says 8.5 AFR. Good!
That little bit of being off is those missing decimal places at work
So your AFR logged values are not falling off a cliff after 11. The raw volts are going down fast too, and they are still scaled to each other the same way. The raw volts going down fast is not the fault of the scaling. It is either what is actually happening in the exhaust, or else it is a basic problem with the wideband.

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Now you do want to have the 2 points as far apart as you can, because whatever error you have in reading your 2 points, that gets magnified as you go farther above or below them with the scaling. So read your 2 points carefully, with the engine running steady, don't be in too much of a hurry, be sure about what you are getting.
But only have them as far apart as you can without having the engine running rough and nasty. Because then the info you read might be just plain not valid.
By making your lean point at an AFR of about 16, that will make that point a lot farther away from the rich point than a lambda 1 point would be. So that helps, and 16 AFR should still run ok usually.

This seems like it may be way above my knowledge level. I'm not sure if I want to continue with this wideband at this point. Do you have any experience with the X-Series gauge? If so, was it less of a hassle than this one? I really don't want to take the easy way out but if the wideband will just constantly fall out of calibration then what even is the point?

Right. Well unfortunately, I have a brand new X-series still in the box and I've been not wanting to have the car down to install it - I mean I always take a ton of time to do anything like that and I keep saying no, not now.
So I don't know what to recommend, except that ECMtuning still recommends the Innovate LC-2. The LC-2 is getting pretty old now. I don't think ECMtuning has ever said anything one way or the other about the newer Innovate which is the MTX-L series. I don't think they have said anything about the AEM X-series.
Justin Dubois in here uses a Zeitronix ZT-3 Wideband on the 2g (1995) Rear O2 input and he seems to like it.
That's about all I can think of for wideband recs.