ECMlink Another AEM Wideband Calibration Help Thread

[We're on Boost]

A minor change I think I would make for higher accuracy would be changing your displayed stoich to 14.1. Our fuel in the northeast is e10, so stoich should be 14.1 vs normal 14.7.

Right it's 14.1 AFR for e10. I don't think we want to do that though. Because everybody for the last 50 years is familiar with the AFR numbers for straight gasoline. Seeing e10 AFR numbers would look funny, it would look like it's a little off. You know, 14.7 for stoic, 12 for WOT normally aspirated, 10 to 11 for WOT in a turbo car, 9 for "pig rich" at WOT in a turbo car, etc. Those are the kind of numbers people have in mind as normal.

We wouldn't have this problem if everybody had switched over to using Lambda 50 or 60 years ago instead of AFR.
Because the way a wideband works, Lambda versus voltage output to the ecu is the same no matter what your fuel is. The AEM "book" value for the 30-4110 is 2.32 volts is Lambda = 1. For all fuels, methanol, ethanol, gasoline, e85, whatever, even propane for god sake. Any of those fuels should give you 2.32 volts out of a 30-4110 when you are at stoic.

But hardly anybody (in the US) displays Lambda because they aren't used to seeing it. They don't know what it should be at different conditions. What they are used to is gasoline AFR.
So what most of us choose to do is display Gasoline AFR.

I never thought about this much until switching to flex fuel. My car could have any % of ethanol in the tank. My actual stoic ratio changes every time I put fuel in the car. But my tables all have 14.7 for the stoic ratio.

I think one place where using the 14.1 should be better is in the calculator on the fuel tab where you are supposed to be able to figure out what your Global Fuel should be from your injector size, base fuel pressure, and the stoic ratio of your fuel. It seems like it's very common for people to end up needing a little more Global Fuel than what they get from that calculator. That's probably one reason why (if they put 14.7 in there).

 

[Tony1094]

Right it's 14.1 AFR for e10. I don't think we want to do that though. Because everybody for the last 50 years is familiar with the AFR numbers for straight gasoline. Seeing e10 AFR numbers would look funny, it would look like it's a little off. You know, 14.7 for stoic, 12 for WOT normally aspirated, 10 to 11 for WOT in a turbo car, 9 for "pig rich" at WOT in a turbo car, etc. Those are the kind of numbers people have in mind as normal.

We wouldn't have this problem if everybody had switched over to using Lambda 50 or 60 years ago instead of AFR.
Because the way a wideband works, Lambda versus voltage output to the ecu is the same no matter what your fuel is. The AEM "book" value for the 30-4110 is 2.32 volts is Lambda = 1. For all fuels, methanol, ethanol, gasoline, e85, whatever, even propane for god sake. Any of those fuels should give you 2.32 volts out of a 30-4110 when you are at stoic.

But hardly anybody (in the US) displays Lambda because they aren't used to seeing it. They don't know what it should be at different conditions. What they are used to is gasoline AFR.
So what most of us choose to do is display Gasoline AFR.

I never thought about this much until switching to flex fuel. My car could have any % of ethanol in the tank. My actual stoic ratio changes every time I put fuel in the car. But my tables all have 14.7 for the stoic ratio.

I think one place where using the 14.1 should be better is in the calculator on the fuel tab where you are supposed to be able to figure out what your Global Fuel should be from your injector size, base fuel pressure, and the stoic ratio of your fuel. It seems like it's very common for people to end up needing a little more Global Fuel than what they get from that calculator. That's probably one reason why (if they put 14.7 in there).

Understood, I wasn't sure if it would help account for the minor differences seen in logging vs what actual gauge is reading.

 

[nice97civic]

FWIW I moved to an LC-2 from AEM and it's been a great move.

 

[We're on Boost]

FWIW I moved to an LC-2 from AEM and it's been a great move.

Aha - Thank you!
Did you get a gauge with it? Which gauge if you got one?
Who did you buy it from?
I've noticed that Innovate isn't exactly pushing the LC-2 these days. I could hardly find it on their website.
I worry that they would like to stop making it
Are you logging it on the Rear O2 input?

 

[nice97civic]

Took me a while to go through all of my orders but I got this one from ExtremePSI.

Innovate Motorsports DB Series Blue Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit, Complete with LC-2

The Innovate Motorsports DB gauges are 52mm (2 1/16”) air fuel gauges. Each gauge features a bright LED display (available in blue, green, or red). Each Gauge Kit includes the gauge, an LC-2 wideband controller, oxygen sensor, bung, serial cable, and the award-winning LogWorks engine-tuning...

www.extremepsi.com

 

[We're on Boost]

I got this one from ExtremePSI.

Thanks, that's a good page, has lots of info and good pictures.
The page says it comes with the 4.9 sensor. That's another item of confusion about the LC-2 because some dealers say 4.2 and some just say it can use either a 4.2 or a 4.9.
Could you tell that yours has a 4.9 sensor, or is that just kind of not marked?

 

[nice97civic]

It's on the sensor but I bought a replacement as well later on which is a 4.9.

 

[We're on Boost]

It's on the sensor but I bought a replacement as well later on which is a 4.9.

Ok good. Did you buy the replacement just for back-up? Or was there something wrong with the sensor that came with it?

 

[nice97civic]

Nothing wrong with the initial sensor, it was the exact same one. It had started to take a while to get warm and running and thought maybe it was the e85 making it weird so bought another. New one started acting the same way after a bit but once it warms up and gets itself together, it's fine.

 

[We're on Boost]

Nothing wrong with the initial sensor, it was the exact same one. It had started to take a while to get warm and running and thought maybe it was the e85 making it weird so bought another. New one started acting the same way after a bit but once it warms up and gets itself together, it's fine.

Yeah they don't put out a signal for about half a minute after start-up. That's slightly annoying because by the time it comes on, the cranking fuel adjust is already over. And it's helpful sometimes to be able to see how rich it's getting during the cranking fuel adjust period. That's the only thing I've seen that I don't like about the LC-2.
On somebody's car recently we changed the delay in ECMlink to 5 seconds, and it still took about 30 seconds usually for the LC-2 to come on in the logs, because of the LC-2's own delay.
It sounds like you are saying that yours got worse (slower to wake up) than what they were at first. Well, at this point are they taking longer than 30 seconds to come on (in the logs) after cranking?

 

[We're on Boost]

Understood, I wasn't sure if it would help account for the minor differences seen in logging vs what actual gauge is reading.

It wouldn't help, because the 30-4110 gauge can display either gasoline AFR or Lambda. That's all. The default is gasoline AFR (rotary switch set to P0). It will display Lambda if the rotary switch is set to P1.

 

[nice97civic]

Yeah they don't put out a signal for about half a minute after start-up. That's slightly annoying because by the time it comes on, the cranking fuel adjust is already over. And it's helpful sometimes to be able to see how rich it's getting during the cranking fuel adjust period. That's the only thing I've seen that I don't like about the LC-2.
On somebody's car recently we changed the delay in ECMlink to 5 seconds, and it still took about 30 seconds usually for the LC-2 to come on in the logs, because of the LC-2's own delay.
It sounds like you are saying that yours got worse (slower to wake up) than what they were at first. Well, at this point are they taking longer than 30 seconds to come on (in the logs) after cranking?

That I'm not sure of. I should say the gauge is slow to wake up but I'm not sure if that correlates to it not logging immediately. I'd have to check that.

 

[ItsTwan309]

I have a used LC2 for 60$
Sorry to plug my own classified, but if you wanted to try something else for cheaper its an option.

 

[kyler021]

Well hopefully this thread can help someone out, but I'm calling it here. One of my LEDs on the gauge is burnt out so I'd just be guessing the numbers. It's not worth it to keep this gauge. I just bought an X-Series. Thanks to We're on Boost for sharing a ton of knowledge that can hopefully help someone out.

Basically, TLDR the AEM 30-4110 gauge is not a good wideband to run on ECMLink, and there's better options out there like the LC2 or MTX or LC1 or the X-series. (So basically any other gauge ).

Thanks for all your guys' input!
Kyle