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Aftermarket ball joints that change the roll center?

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Ludachris

Founder & Zookeeper
8,053
3,071
Nov 12, 2001
Newcastle, California
I could have sworn I saw a thread about this a while back but cannot find it now after searching a bunch of keywords. I read an article in a mag that showed Whiteline ball joints for an Evo that basically added close to an inch of space between the spindle and the control arm. This was done to allow the car to be lowered without negatively affecting the roll center (causing handling issues). The kit came with ball joints and tie rod ends. I'm wondering if we might be able to do this.
 
I have all the whiteline products for my evo, one of my winter mods in fact. Here's a pic:
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I did a quick once over of their website and could not find anything for "our" cars. THey have loads of EVO parts and other Mitu's but nothing that I could find right quick for Eclipse/Talons. I will keep looking though.

Andy - Do you know if any of the EVO parts (like these) are compatible with the Eclipse/Talons?
 
I did a quick once over of their website and could not find anything for "our" cars. THey have loads of EVO parts and other Mitu's but nothing that I could find right quick for Eclipse/Talons. I will keep looking though.

Andy - Do you know if any of the EVO parts (like these) are compatible with the Eclipse/Talons?

Not sure, I’ve not heard of any DSM guys using the evo controls arms, don’t think they would fit really.

Not sure if 2g guys would really need a roll center kit with the double wishbone suspension. 1g's would benefit from it as they share many similarities as an evo.
 
Andy, is your kit still off the car? Can you take some measurements?

If there's a chance I might be fabbing some control arms then why not get them made to fit these instead of the factory ball joints?
 
Andy, is your kit still off the car? Can you take some measurements?

If there's a chance I might be fabbing some control arms then why not get them made to fit these instead of the factory ball joints?


Yes, I still have them bran new in the box.

I'll take them out and get you some detail pics with measurements to go with.

and also, i bet those tie rods will fit perfectly right on a DSM. So really the only obstacle would be the ball joints.
 
I asked that one a long time ago and I can't find it in my subs, I must have unsubscribed. The conclusion I came up with so far is, the taper on a 1g is the same as on a 3s, but the press in diameter in the control arm is different, so the longer ball joint that is available for 3s's would require the lower arm to be altered for it to fit.

Since Mits is sharing tapers, they may have shared the press in diameter on DSM to EVO. (crosses fingers) No one likes geometry-induced handling quirks.

>update< The ball joints I mention in this post seem to be no longer available. >update<
 
1st you might want to address correcting the bump steer.I improved it with heim joints at the tie rod ends. I have photos in my gallery.I am in the planning stage of building tubular lower front control arms.I plan on using spherical bearings with receivers instead of ball joints. This way I can adjust the roll centers. After the front control arms I plan on building rear lower control arms.
 
Rear upper control arms are easy to build. I built a set of them long long time ago. Maybe cost at most $100 depending on what type of heim joints you get or where you get swedge tubing or make you own etc. Really inexpensive.

Rear lowers I have thought about but figuring out a decent way to mount the swaybar is somewhat of a problem though I have a few options, could even add adjustability into them. Just never got around to it. Too busy with other more important things.
 
1st you might want to address correcting the bump steer.I improved it with heim joints at the tie rod ends. I have photos in my gallery.I am in the planning stage of building tubular lower front control arms.I plan on using spherical bearings with receivers instead of ball joints. This way I can adjust the roll centers. After the front control arms I plan on building rear lower control arms.

I've seen the pics of the tie rod modification, it is definately a piece of the puzzle that needs addressing. My car bump steers some as it is set up now. I've read that the uprights from a FWD will help bump steer, at the cost of some steering quickness due to the arm being not only a bit lower, but longer too.

Meantime, if the EVO ball joints fit, that is easier and more expedient to me than having (another) set of control arms made. Let's get those measurements, Andy! :cool:
 
Next to mountaineering snow skiing,my other interest is working in the garage. The factory was pretty close with adjusted the bump steer.When I made the heim joint tie rod ends,the closer to the spindle arm improved the bump steer.Has anybody made a sample of our roll centers front and rear?Next question do we need to change them?Usually the factory is pretty close.
 
I've seen the pics of the tie rod modification, it is definately a piece of the puzzle that needs addressing. My car bump steers some as it is set up now. I've read that the uprights from a FWD will help bump steer, at the cost of some steering quickness due to the arm being not only a bit lower, but longer too.

Meantime, if the EVO ball joints fit, that is easier and more expedient to me than having (another) set of control arms made. Let's get those measurements, Andy! :cool:

ha,

So I went to the garage to get my micrometer which does not get used much if any now that I have an Evo that does not require as much attention like my DSM did. And the dang thing doesn't work. So measurements are delayed for a few days till I can pickup a new one.
 
Next to mountaineering snow skiing,my other interest is working in the garage. The factory was pretty close with adjusted the bump steer.When I made the heim joint tie rod ends,the closer to the spindle arm improved the bump steer.Has anybody made a sample of our roll centers front and rear?Next question do we need to change them?Usually the factory is pretty close.
The problem is our cars sit pretty high. We can't really lower them that much without hurting handling, yet lowering the car is necessary to bring down the center of gravity. If we were able to lower the car more without screwing up the roll center, I'm sure we'd see some benefits.
 
The problem is our cars sit pretty high. We can't really lower them that much without hurting handling, yet lowering the car is necessary to bring down the center of gravity. If we were able to lower the car more without screwing up the roll center, I'm sure we'd see some benefits.
Without having to get overly scientific, if our lower control arms are close to being flat or even angled up, we need the longer ball joints. I should have them.

If you check the parts store or stock car motors on line you might find longer ball joints.There is a book by sizes instead application.
The only ball joint's I've seen for circle track, are for GM applications and none appear to be extended length. Racing Ball Joints

PS. I looked at the threads I've started, and can't find one on ball joints. I must have asked that one in connection with someone elses thread.
 
Will the tie rod ends fit a 2g?

For 2g guys what is the benefit of the whiteline tie rods, or going to a full heim joint setup?

Also does anyone know a place to get the lower balljoint from the lower control arm? Just the balljoint?
 
I think if anything I'd rather see the control arm raised on the inside than lowered on the outside. The factory subframe should be replaced with a tubular unit anyways, its a huge overweight POS. This would allow for aftermarket steering rack options as well.
 
I think if anything I'd rather see the control arm raised on the inside than lowered on the outside. The factory subframe should be replaced with a tubular unit anyways, its a huge overweight POS. This would allow for aftermarket steering rack options as well.
I agree... the problem is the age of these cars will make it extremely difficult for a subframe solution to be developed, not to mention sold at a decent price. We just don't have enough people that would buy them. Wouldn't it be nice to have one that is developed for road racing but could be stripped down for drag racers? Problem is, who could we get to make them? I could check with a local fab shop, but I doubt they'd agree to make them knowing the small numbers they'd end up selling.

This might be a cheaper alternative that could work for us.
 
Well, don’t have measurements, but I did take some close up pics with a friend’s macro lens to give you guys an idea how these things would have to be place into the control arm.

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Also, I think I have changed my winter mod plans and may not use this kit, so if someone would like to buy it, I'd give them a hell of a deal to go towards the DSM suspension research & development fund. (Going to prep the Evo for BSP)
 
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