1G AEM EMS?

[DevilsAWD]

I know, I know, about a billion threads about the AEM EMS. I searched through many and couldn't find one that answered my specific question. Let me give you a little background before I ask the overall question.

Bought the car for $700.00.
1990 Eagle Talon TSI
bone freakin stock (even the blowoff still has the plastic cover)
Has a brand new head and performance gaskit kit ARP studs etc
New alternator
New timing belt
.........................

Ten minutes after buying the car I know why the guy was selling so cheap. out of nowhere the check engine light came on and the car started bucking violently. it was obviously fuel related because after letting off of the throttle the car would cruise normal. Called the guy back and asked if had experienced this before... he said "yep I'm purty sure it's the drivetrain somewhere" (idiot). after about ten minutes the condition cleared itself up and I drove the car home.

Started the diagnosis process. and found the capicitors on the ECU had leaked all over... great time for a new ECU!

Now here's the problem. I live in an area where computer experts are few and far between. I don't see the point in replacing used parts with used parts for this to happen again. Also I wouldn't want to pay $500+ for a DSM link and to have my used ECU socketed when I could blow another one.

I bought the car to build so a piggyback or tuning system needs to be put in eventually anyway.

I want an AEM EMS for the "plug and play" ease but am very new to tuning in general.

so here are my questions:

1. will the AEM system work on my completely stock vehicle?
2. does it come with a "wizard" that will ask base questions and set up that basic tune? or does it contain the basic tune the car needs to start and run in the first place?
3. is it really a fully contained ECU and I can throw that old junk with the mitsubishi symbol out?
4. I have seen these systems range from $1,190.00 to about $1,700.00. why the price gap?

thanks for tolerating me,

-Devs

 

[CryoBlue98]

I have very little to no knowledge about AEM EMS except its one of the best Engine managment systems out there also its very pricey, alot of the tuning shops around here where I live prefer people to have it simply becuase I guess if you have used it once its not hard to figure out.... personally if i could afford it and afford to have it tuned I would buy it.

Sorry Im not too too much help. Good luck

 

[t25fury]

A few things to note: If the seller lied about not telling you it has a drivetrain problem he probably lied about the "brand new head and performance gasket kit,new alternator and new timing belt".Also, its a 1st gen so the bov should be metal not plastic.As for tuning if you are new to it I don't recomend aem as this is not user friendly,and requires a competent and qualified tuner to dial in the aem(hope you have lots of money if can't tune it yourself).No,aem does not come with Mavis to take you through a tour guide on how to use it.I highly recomend dsm link as this is user friendly and is about half the cost of aem.Or you could wait a couple of months and get the lite version of dsm link,wich rumor has it,it might be about half the cost of the full dsm link.

 

[DyNamiC]

DSMLink all the way with a good rebuilt ECU. There is a learning curve either way with AEM or DSMLink, its just not as steep with Link. Plus Link has an excellent user support forum to get you going and help you out if need be.

 

[DevilsAWD]

A few things to note: If the seller lied about not telling you it has a drivetrain problem he probably lied about the "brand new head and performance gasket kit,new alternator and new timing belt".Also, its a 1st gen so the bov should be metal not plastic.As for tuning if you are new to it I don't recomend aem as this is not user friendly,and requires a competent and qualified tuner to dial in the aem(hope you have lots of money if can't tune it yourself).No,aem does not come with Mavis to take you through a tour guide on how to use it.I highly recomend dsm link as this is user friendly and is about half the cost of aem.Or you could wait a couple of months and get the lite version of dsm link,wich rumor has it,it might be about half the cost of the full dsm link.

A. The car doesn't have a drivetrain problem. The seller thought it did.
B. I do my research, Seller had reciepts and I called the companies to confirm service. (not to mention how shiny the head and alternator are.)
C. I may be new, but I am a competent person. so being able to tune is something with a learning curve. or maybe I have this wrong and will never be able to do it .
D. if I have to spend 500 on a remanufactured ECU and then 600 on DSM link I'm into my computer the same cost with used/remanufactured parts, and then still have to figure out the tuning side of it.

Just so you know the nearest tuner is at least in billings, 4 hours away. Or in Denver @ 6.5 hours away. not exactly down the street to have someone do the work for me.


------ I mean seriously, how far off base am I?


-Devs

 

[1fastlaser]

I personally love aem. When i knew I was getting it I downloaded the program and started playing with it. I got a map to work with, and went from there.

I street tuned the car. It took about 30 minutes of driving to get it ok to drive, and romp on it. Slowly turned the boost up and made adjustments. Then i would go home look at the 3d graph and my tables and smooth it out. You can do a boost compensation table also which is great, and pretty easy to setup.

With my self tune I went 11.73@124 on pump gas 23psi with a 60-1. If the trans, and traction wasnt working agains me it definatly had low 11s in it on pump, which isnt bad for a newbie to aem, but I also have other experience with dsmlink, and afc/logging.

My new setup im running 27psi on pump gas with a gt4294, no meth or e85 etc. Its ok to learn, but you gotta work with it.

 

[DyNamiC]

You can pick up a good solid EPROM ECU for way less than $500.

EPROM ECU from FFWD

EPROM ECU from ECMLINK

There are also some EPROMS floating around on the bay.

 

[myturbo]

You can find a full (used) DSMLINK kit with eprom ecu ,, everything you need for Less than $650 .all day long.

And you can find a eprom ecu all day long for $ 200 or less.

Or a regular ecu for $50 or less.

ETC. ETC.
\
And tuning "dsm_link" is pretty easy.

If you buy a new dsm_link kit you can get a pre tune on it.

 

[gsxtasy]

I've had both, and dsmlink is much, much more user friendly. Also, with v3 and the updates they are coming out with, the gap from AEM to link is pretty much non-existent. Don't get me wrong, I love my AEM, and I tune/learned it myself, I had help over the phone from some very knowledgeable people, but overall I had to learn most of it, so it can be done. It's pretty intimidating, and overwhelming at first, but you can get the hang of it with some seat time.

On a side note: the link forums are worth the money in it self. I think either way you'll like your choice.

 

[DyNamiC]

On a side note: the link forums are worth the money in it self. I think either way you'll like your choice.

Between here and the DSMLink forums every possible question has probably been answered.

 

[DevilsAWD]

I've had both, and dsmlink is much, much more user friendly. Also, with v3 and the updates they are coming out with, the gap from AEM to link is pretty much non-existent. Don't get me wrong, I love my AEM, and I tune/learned it myself, I had help over the phone from some very knowledgeable people, but overall I had to learn most of it, so it can be done. It's pretty intimidating, and overwhelming at first, but you can get the hang of it with some seat time.

On a side note: the link forums are worth the money in it self. I think either way you'll like your choice.

and I know you guys are gonna hate this question... but I want to go with an uncirc setup... I know the AEM unit can tune for it... but can DSM link also?

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Yes, with the gm maf you can go uncirculated. Still not sure why you won't pay $50 for caps and someone to recap the board instead of going full ems that costs $1000+. Especially on a $700 car!!

 

[gsxtasy]

and I know you guys are gonna hate this question... but I want to go with an uncirc setup... I know the AEM unit can tune for it... but can DSM link also?

It's not about tuning for it, it's the physical configuration of your air metering system. The reason you can do it with AEM is that you can set it up in speed density. This uses a MAP(manifold absolute pressure) sensor along with an IAT(intake air temp) sensor and calculates airflow. Since it isn't actually counting airflow it doesn't matter whether it comes in from the BOV or from intake pipe, etc. With a GM MAF in blow-through, you have to have the BOV in front of the MAF, because it is still metering air, it's just metering it after the BOV so if air gets in the BOV it will still get metered. In stock configuration the MAF is the first piece of the intake track, so all the air that sneaks in behind it is un-metered and causes fueling issues.

So venting your BOV all amounts to how your car is setup. ECMlink(v3) is coming out with speed density sometime, which will allow you to vent, or you can run a GM MAF setup with dsmlink, which will also allow you to vent. AEM you can run speed density, like I said to accomplish this. That really is your only options to 'properly' vent your BOV.

 

[DevilsAWD]

It's not about tuning for it, it's the physical configuration of your air metering system. The reason you can do it with AEM is that you can set it up in speed density. This uses a MAP(manifold absolute pressure) sensor along with an IAT(intake air temp) sensor and calculates airflow. Since it isn't actually counting airflow it doesn't matter whether it comes in from the BOV or from intake pipe, etc. With a GM MAF in blow-through, you have to have the BOV in front of the MAF, because it is still metering air, it's just metering it after the BOV so if air gets in the BOV it will still get metered. In stock configuration the MAF is the first piece of the intake track, so all the air that sneaks in behind it is un-metered and causes fueling issues.

So venting your BOV all amounts to how your car is setup. ECMlink(v3) is coming out with speed density sometime, which will allow you to vent, or you can run a GM MAF setup with dsmlink, which will also allow you to vent. AEM you can run speed density, like I said to accomplish this. That really is your only options to 'properly' vent your BOV.

wow... best explination I have heard yet.

So I have two options: Go with the DSM link and put the 3 inch GM MAF close to the throttle body. IE by way of the Dejon tool kit?

or Go AEM and eliminate my MAF all together and run the car under "speed density".

Both options will properly vent a BOV to atmosphere so I can be a "ricer" without... being a ricer?

 

[DevilsAWD]

Yes, with the gm maf you can go uncirculated. Still not sure why you won't pay $50 for caps and someone to recap the board instead of going full ems that costs $1000+. Especially on a $700 car!!

Well... i bought the car for 700... but my goal with it is 500 AWHP. which is why I wonder if DSM link is sufficient enough for that.

 

[gstryyder]

yes, dsmlink is sufficient for beyond 500hp.

 

[DevilsAWD]

yes, dsmlink is sufficient for beyond 500hp.

couple more questions:

1. If i Go DSM link then I have to go the "GM MAF" route to vent to atmosphere. the easiest way it seems to do this is to buy a cable with my DSM link to wire up as well as a kit from Dejon to put that Maf into use. while I'm in there I might as well upgrade the blowoff too. (I"m gonna go either tial or HKS, feel free to chime in on which you guys prefer) am I missing anything I might need to wrap this whole tuning/hardpipe/blowoff package?

2. obviously I need to go to a bigger intercooler later. is front mount the only way to go? or can I keep it stealthy and water cool it? if an when either of these is an option will the dejon powerhouse upper piping kit be: "modifiable" (yes I made that up) to mate up with either of these two options?

ah the newb juices are flowing now.

 

[6-bolt]

1. will the AEM system work on my completely stock vehicle?

Yes, base maps come with the software. I used the speed density base map. Only thing I had to change ways adding in more fuel during a cold start and fixing the TPS bug.

2. does it come with a "wizard" that will ask base questions and set up that basic tune? or does it contain the basic tune the car needs to start and run in the first place?

AEM EMS do come with wizard. However the wizard are pretty standard, like set-up a MAP sensor, or change the injector size.

3. is it really a fully contained ECU and I can throw that old junk with the mitsubishi symbol out?

It fully replaces the OEM ECU.

4. I have seen these systems range from $1,190.00 to about $1,700.00. why the price gap?

I got a barley used 2G one for ~$800 on eBay.

I have only used AEM EMS for tuning and never used the DSMLink. The main reason I use AEM EMS is for speed density. I know DSMLink (ECMLink) v3 will eventually support speed density, but I bought my EMS about a year ago.

I am an electrical engineer, and built a engine ECU for a college project. Also have read many engine management and tuning books. So programing the EMS came very easy for me. Not trying to toot my own horn, but giving you a base line on my tuning experience.

The only issue I have had with the AEM EMS was the 0% TPS reading bug. Basically the EMS freaks out if it sees a 0% from the TPS. It took about 3min to adjust the TPS to solve the problem.

Also the AEM forum is weak in community support. There are good sticky threads with a lot of good info, this is how I found out about TPS bug. However, you can find a lot of info just searching AEM and DSM Tuners forums.

So do some research (IE MAF vs SD). Get some engine tuning books from Amazon. Find out what your goals are and adjust accordingly.

 

[gsxtasy]

couple more questions:

1. If i Go DSM link then I have to go the "GM MAF" route to vent to atmosphere. the easiest way it seems to do this is to buy a cable with my DSM link to wire up as well as a kit from Dejon to put that Maf into use. while I'm in there I might as well upgrade the blowoff too. (I"m gonna go either tial or HKS, feel free to chime in on which you guys prefer) am I missing anything I might need to wrap this whole tuning/hardpipe/blowoff package?

2. obviously I need to go to a bigger intercooler later. is front mount the only way to go? or can I keep it stealthy and water cool it? if an when either of these is an option will the dejon powerhouse upper piping kit be: "modifiable" (yes I made that up) to mate up with either of these two options?

ah the newb juices are flowing now.

1. If you want to run the GM MAF, then yes buying the dsmlink cable along with it is by far the easiest way to do it. You won't need a MAF-Translator then. In the dsmlink v3 thread on here, Tom said they were "VERY close" to releasing the updates(SD, etc.) which then you wouldn't need the GM MAF at all, this would be the best option out of your choices, I think. However, it's hard telling when that will happen for sure, so it's up to you.

2. You can get a supra sidemount intercooler, which is still decent and fits where the stock intercooler does. You can get water-air intercoolers, which are more efficient when filled with ice/water than FMIC, but not very practical for street driving. Any piping is "modifiable" with enough work.

edit: Can't go wrong with a Tial BOV, if you're venting.

 

[DevilsAWD]

1. If you want to run the GM MAF, then yes buying the dsmlink cable along with it is by far the easiest way to do it. You won't need a MAF-Translator then. In the dsmlink v3 thread on here, Tom said they were "VERY close" to releasing the updates(SD, etc.) which then you wouldn't need the GM MAF at all, this would be the best option out of your choices, I think. However, it's hard telling when that will happen for sure, so it's up to you.

2. You can get a supra sidemount intercooler, which is still decent and fits where the stock intercooler does. You can get water-air intercoolers, which are more efficient when filled with ice/water than FMIC, but not very practical for street driving. Any piping is "modifiable" with enough work.

the eagle is not street driven for the most part. that's why I have the g8

I"m pretty sure i'm going to go the DSM link route. I"m a little concerned about ordering hard piping to put in a GM MAF. especially if the extra cost isn't needed if SD is going to be incorporated in DSM link later... hmmmmmmm... I really just want to drive my eagle again .

 

[gsxtasy]

the eagle is not street driven for the most part. that's why I have the g8

Well, then get to researching and see if it's something you want to tackle or not.

Here's a start:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...ir-water-merged-7-7-intercooler-liquid-1.html

 

[6-bolt]

1. If i Go DSM link then I have to go the "GM MAF" route to vent to atmosphere. the easiest way it seems to do this is to buy a cable with my DSM link to wire up as well as a kit from Dejon to put that Maf into use. while I'm in there I might as well upgrade the blowoff too. (I"m gonna go either tial or HKS, feel free to chime in on which you guys prefer) am I missing anything I might need to wrap this whole tuning/hardpipe/blowoff package?

Short answer, yes, it would be the best way to go, if you get a DSMLink v3.

Long answer, theoretically you could put the OEM MAF after the blow-off valve and before the TB. I say theoretically because I have never seen anyone do it.

Also the AEM EMS does support the "hot wire" MAFs. So you can do some quick re-wire and use the AEM EMS.

For the blow-off, HKS and Tial make good products. Keep away from knock offs and Chinese junk.

Check out this thread on RMDSM. A person is testing out the GM MAF and SD for ECM Link.
DSMLink V3 - Rocky Mountain DSM

2. obviously I need to go to a bigger intercooler later. is front mount the only way to go? or can I keep it stealthy and water cool it? if an when either of these is an option will the dejon powerhouse upper piping kit be: "modifiable" (yes I made that up) to mate up with either of these two options?

WAIC work really well. Just need to size the reservoir correctly to make sure you do not heat soak the water. Also use a correct size heat exchanger.

A lot of good tech info in this thread for CODSM.
S256 and WAIC - new setup - Colorado DSM Club Forums

Both RMDSM and CODSM are in Colorado. Might be a good resource for you, since WY is not too far away.

Darren
6Bolt

 

[DyNamiC]

Long answer, theoretically you could put the OEM MAF after the blow-off valve and before the TB. I say theoretically because I have never seen anyone do it.

The OEM MAF can't handle positive pressure if I remember correctly.

 

[DevilsAWD]

The OEM MAF can't handle positive pressure if I remember correctly.

This is what I heard. however the GM MAF can and thus is the reason they make those converters or adapter cords with DSM link.

I ordered all the piping to do a GM MAF after turbo setup.

as soon as DSM link gets back to me on availability of ECU's I will be going that route.

I also ordered a BOV that will be able to handle more then 20 PSI (HKS).

next is fuel, then turbo, then intake and head componants. then motor and transmission... such a long ways to go /sigh!

Still looking into water cooling the intake charge. seems the best route for what I want to do.

 

[DyNamiC]

You won't regret buying DSMLink. I can promise you that.