98 GSX Time Trial build

[gsxitement]

Its the kind of smart for the bottom end I'd expect from someone who turns both left and right ;-)
(meaning - It sounds good for power in the lower RPM range)

Focusing on midrange and response. Looking for dig off the corner.

 

[gsxitement]

A bit of progress. New cooling package coming together.

 

[gsxitement]

Changed it around. Was going to have a problem with clearance around the headlight with the oil cooler mounted vertically. But figuring it out.

 

[gsxitement]

All coolers mounted. Time for ducting.

 

[gsxitement]

Started my CAD (cardboard assisted design) mock up for the ducting. Gonna be strange to fit the corners.

 

[BeatupVR4]

I love what you are trying to do with the ducting! I'm working on a similar project with my Galant with a Scirocco radiator.

A couple of notes.

I don't love the top duct. First it's at quite an extreme angle for airflow and is going to hurt the pressure in front of the radiator core. Second it makes the only air available to the radiator from the intercooler. This is not the best design for two reasons. One the intercooler will be the hottest cooler in that equation when under full tilt (which I think you are most of the time) heating up the air the most and giving the radiator the worst chance to do it's job. Two the flow area of that intercooler looks to be about 1/3-1/4 of that of the radiator, between the smaller frontal area and the bar and plate construction, which is really going to kill airflow through the radiator. I'd angle that top plate down and have is seal against the rad with some round foam edging or something.

Like:

Then modify the front bumper something like

ala

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/rice-over-greyforest-bumper-mod-for-cooling-and-great-results.260472/

At that point I'd put the oil cooler behind the radiator at the top behind the fresh air section so it can do it's job the best.

This is all efficiency theory based and your radiator might have enough heat rejection to keep up with the power you make even with your current design. I do know you'll be at a relatively high road speed most of the time too but I'd hate for it to work OK on a fast course and have overheating issues on a slow track. Keep up the good work!


EDIT: I looked back at your thread and was literally your bumper that I was thinking of for that modification! Beat me to it.

 

[gsxitement]

Thanks for the input! Definitely some really good ideas and advice. I used to run a similar ducting setup on a different intercooler setup and it worked really well. I could turn the fans on and it would suck a piece of paper to the front of the intercooler. Something that should be kept in mind is my car doesn’t run full 15 minute sessions. I have an out lap, a flier, maybe a second flier and a cool down, before everything is heat soaked, including the tires. I’m going to wind up doing the 1/3rd rule, where the inlet of the ducting is 1/3rd the size as the coolers getting the airflow. I’ve run this setup: intercooler->oil cooler->radiator for quite some time and it works well at keeping everything cool (relatively). In fact, when I changed the intercooler and didn’t put ducting in, that’s when I really saw increased temps across the board. So, I’m still messing around with setup, but rest assured, It’ll get the job done when I’m finished with it. Thanks for the input!!

Edit: I’m also trying to balance airflow/cooling with maximum downforce. Another reason I’m getting away from the 350Z nostrils I’ve run for a while. A giant splitter helps, but I really want to keep the front of the car as sealed as possible.

Also edit: you can go to page 21 and see what the original ducting looked like. I want to expand on what I learned with that ducting and apply it this.

 

[gsxitement]

Started working on a different setup for the ducting. After talking with a few people, decided to try and get some fresh air to the radiator. I had really wanted to keep the bumper as sealed as possible so we could increase front downforce, but, I guess we can always tape up the grill if we need less cooling and more downforce. This is just a mock up that I did in like an hour.

 

[BeatupVR4]

Thanks for the response! Your real world experience and use case obviously holds more weight than straight theory. And there is always chasing the white rabbit, that hole never ends.

I'm loving your updated design. As for keeping open frontal area down you could also apply that same 1/3-1/4 area rule to the intercooler and put ducting in front of that. I did this forever ago and got made fun of a lot and also didn't have the funds or equipment/knowledge to quantify my reasoning or it's effects. The aviation industry has a lot of good info on this subject as the airspeed is greater having a more measurable effect.

Excuse my quick and dirty modeling but something like this for the intercooler

then your front bumper opening could go from this

to something like this

Obviously we are space constrained but trying to achieve this

And remember to try to curve those panels when you can with a decreasing radius

I'm not sure how much distance is between the face of the IC and the front bumper cover but I've used air guides in tight spots before and at least with intercooler end tanks there is a measurable difference in performance. (slightly increased pressure drop for a greater than slight drop in intake temps)



EDIT: I knew I had seen someone with more clout than me do this. The professional awesome time attack Evo


They clearly had some more distance from the IC face to the bumper cover to work with but you get the idea.

 

[gsxitement]

Thanks for the response! Your real world experience and use case obviously holds more weight than straight theory. And there is always chasing the white rabbit, that hole never ends.

I'm loving your updated design. As for keeping open frontal area down you could also apply that same 1/3-1/4 area rule to the intercooler and put ducting in front of that. I did this forever ago and got made fun of a lot and also didn't have the funds or equipment/knowledge to quantify my reasoning or it's effects. The aviation industry has a lot of good info on this subject as the airspeed is greater having a more measurable effect.

Excuse my quick and dirty modeling but something like this for the intercooler
View attachment 718217
then your front bumper opening could go from this
View attachment 718218
to something like this
View attachment 718219
Obviously we are space constrained but trying to achieve this
View attachment 718220
And remember to try to curve those panels when you can with a decreasing radius
View attachment 718221
I'm not sure how much distance is between the face of the IC and the front bumper cover but I've used air guides in tight spots before and at least with intercooler end tanks there is a measurable difference in performance. (slightly increased pressure drop for a greater than slight drop in intake temps)

View attachment 718222

EDIT: I knew I had seen someone with more clout than me do this. The professional awesome time attack Evo
View attachment 718223
View attachment 718224
They clearly had some more distance from the IC face to the bumper cover to work with but you get the idea.

Yeah Mike at ProAwe is who I was talking to about the situation with the coolers. I want to do something with the front of the intercooler, but I’m very space limited. I’m going to be doing the front bumper like you see on the upper end time attack Miata’s and things.

I just don’t have a whole lot of room between the bumper and intercooler. (4” intercooler core. But it’ll get figured out.

 

[BeatupVR4]

Well that looks menacing as hell. I would definitely go with a no babies symbol though.


I'm on a front end aero kick as last year I did a bunch of refurb and upgrades to my M-sport E60 535 and the thought that went into that aero kit is disgusting. Huge front brake ducts. Single piston calipers but 14" rotors. Almost flat underbody to the rear subframe. The axle (X-drive) and tie rod guard holes have gaskets. Completely sealed cooling package. HUGE oil cooler. High pressure intake pickup. I've had it up to 155mph and it's as stable as it is at 70mph. Then getting back to the Galant it's like yikes. Apples to oranges though obviously.

Random internet pics




Excited to see where you take this chassis.

 

[gsxitement]

Well that looks menacing as hell. I would definitely go with a no babies symbol though.
View attachment 718353

I'm on a front end aero kick as last year I did a bunch of refurb and upgrades to my M-sport E60 535 and the thought that went into that aero kit is disgusting. Huge front brake ducts. Single piston calipers but 14" rotors. Almost flat underbody to the rear subframe. The axle (X-drive) and tie rod guard holes have gaskets. Completely sealed cooling package. HUGE oil cooler. High pressure intake pickup. I've had it up to 155mph and it's as stable as it is at 70mph. Then getting back to the Galant it's like yikes. Apples to oranges though obviously.

Random internet pics
View attachment 718354
View attachment 718356
View attachment 718357

Excited to see where you take this chassis.

Yeah…it’s been a pretty steady progression of try something, apply it fully if it works, change if it doesn’t. The splitter has been developed over the last few years. Granted it’s DIY plywood, but it works very well. Have to really have the template sent out and have it made out of something lighter. I’m satisfied with the shape, just want to make it lighter. We’ll see what happens though.

 

[gsxitement]

Finally was able to get some work on the car done last week. Ducting for the coolers is pretty much all finished. I’ll work on finalizing all the connection points when the motors back in and we can figure out spacing. But pretty happy with how it all turned out.

 

[EC17PSE]

Thanks for the response! Your real world experience and use case obviously holds more weight than straight theory. And there is always chasing the white rabbit, that hole never ends.

I'm loving your updated design. As for keeping open frontal area down you could also apply that same 1/3-1/4 area rule to the intercooler and put ducting in front of that. I did this forever ago and got made fun of a lot and also didn't have the funds or equipment/knowledge to quantify my reasoning or it's effects. The aviation industry has a lot of good info on this subject as the airspeed is greater having a more measurable effect.

Excuse my quick and dirty modeling but something like this for the intercooler
View attachment 718217
then your front bumper opening could go from this
View attachment 718218
to something like this
View attachment 718219
Obviously we are space constrained but trying to achieve this
View attachment 718220
And remember to try to curve those panels when you can with a decreasing radius
View attachment 718221
I'm not sure how much distance is between the face of the IC and the front bumper cover but I've used air guides in tight spots before and at least with intercooler end tanks there is a measurable difference in performance. (slightly increased pressure drop for a greater than slight drop in intake temps)

View attachment 718222

EDIT: I knew I had seen someone with more clout than me do this. The professional awesome time attack Evo
View attachment 718223
View attachment 718224
They clearly had some more distance from the IC face to the bumper cover to work with but you get the idea.

This is exactly how i did mine. It works amazingly well, i was told the rear extractor was to small but seems to work as planned thankfully. I did open the front upper part by the upper opening of the bumper a bit also to get some cooler air in the upper part above the initial duct that any air bypasses still gets in to the core as i was about 2" short of good flow up there.

 

[gsxitement]

Haven’t been able to get out to the garage too much lately. Just life stuff going on. But, I brought the dash inside and started working on the fuel tech setup. Really impressed by how much the fuel tech can actually do! TONS of available inputs to log. Excited to get it all together.

 

[gsxitement]

Damn! Been a minute. Got a bit of stuff done. Picked up a heat barrier gasket and a bezel insert for the fueltech from Jason. Super cool. Got some of the suspension together as well. Installed the rack and the RMDSM front sway bar. Also got Bobbys V2 upper arm installed and most of the corner as well. Also got the Radium surge tank and fuel lab filter mounted. Trying to get revved up to work on the car. Seeing some of it back together fired me up.

 

[Ludachris]

You know it's getting serious when the surge tank goes in. Lookin' good.

 

[gsxitement]

You know it's getting serious when the surge tank goes in. Lookin' good.

Eh….it was more just motivation to see something complete to keep me revved up.

 

[Ludachris]

Eh….it was more just motivation to see something complete to keep me revved up.

I know that feeling. Keep it up.

 

[gsxitement]

Update time. Still waiting on the block to come back from the machine shop. Dropped it off in January. Getting frustrated. Wanted to have the motor in the car in April to feel comfortable with my time line of my first event being June 22-23. Been trying to keep myself busy with the little things that need to be done. So redid all the brake lines in the car. A lot cleaner than it was previously. So that’s one thing off the list. Still got a lot to do though. I’ll get a pic of the inside of the car as well. But here is the run from the master to the T that supplies fluid to the bias valve, then to the rear wheels. A lot cleaner than it used to be, that’s for sure.

 

[gsxitement]

Update: block is back! Wish I could be as excited about it as I should be, but when the machinist torqued down the girdle, it contacted the block at the little nubs where the rear main seal bolts go. He said it shouldn’t effect the line bore, but to be sure, I have it tightened down the way he machined it, going to measure everything, then disassemble, grind down the interference points, reinstall, and renew sure everything and look for and deviation in the measurements. It should be fine, but I need to make sure before it gets assembled. A little annoying that’s for sure. 5 months, 800 bucks and it’s not perfect makes me aggravated.

 

[Ludachris]

Let's hope he's right.

 

[92Turbski]

Update: block is back! Wish I could be as excited about it as I should be, but when the machinist torqued down the girdle, it contacted the block at the little nubs where the rear main seal bolts go. He said it shouldn’t effect the line bore, but to be sure, I have it tightened down the way he machined it, going to measure everything, then disassemble, grind down the interference points, reinstall, and renew sure everything and look for and deviation in the measurements. It should be fine, but I need to make sure before it gets assembled. A little annoying that’s for sure. 5 months, 800 bucks and it’s not perfect makes me aggravated. View attachment 731009View attachment 731010

Don't worry, man. It'll check out just fine. Classic mix of where OE meets aftermarket. Little buzz clearance Clarence, and she'll be golden.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Could someone point out exactly what/where we’re talking about here? I’m just not seeing it.

 

[gsxitement]

Could someone point out exactly what/where we’re talking about here? I’m just not seeing it.

You’re not going to see it in these pics, but where the rear main seal housing bolts to the block, the two lowest bolts closest to the oil pan rail, their bosses protrude into the crankcase a smidge. The girdle requires those to be ground down so it can sit flush on the cap. He didn’t grind down the protrusions, so the girdle interfered with them, and bent the a little bit. My worry was if grinding those protrusions down now, and eliminating that interference, would that alter the line bore. So we’ll see. Got a lot of measuring to do.