'96 Talon won't start - codes video

[bkvail]

We parked our '96 Talon for a week, and now it won't start. It turns over, no strange noises when it cranks, but it doesn't sound like it even wants to 'catch' to start. At first when I tried to start it, it sputtered a LITTLE, but now it just blankly cranks.

It has had the 'check engine' light on for some time - I had it checked at Autozone a while ago and the codes he told me were the o2 sensors (Midas confirmed the cat was in pieces inside and in need of replacing - they wanted $800 to replace the exhaust, so needless to say I just let it go for now). Anyhow, the other code that it threw at the time was for the EGR valve (which I replaced a couple weeks ago along with the vacuum hose that goes from the sensor that attaches to the EGR valve).

I was debating about buying one of those code readers, then realized that the codes could be read without one, so I followed the instructions in the manual and took a video of the flashes in hopes you could help me figure out where I should go from here. My husband works TONS of hours, and this time of year is even more brutal for him, so I'm trying to do this on my own. I'm not new to do-it-yourself though - I've done a lot of mechanical work on cars including replacing timing belts on an EA82 Subaru a few years ago, replacing radiators, water pumps, alternators, starters, etc. etc. I can do it and I don't mind getting dirty - just when it comes to electrical stuff, I'm stumped!

I think this car is pissed at me because we JUST decided to sell it while it was parked, (in order to buy another one, maybe an Eclipse with an auto trans for my younger son) it's been an awesome car and you can't beat the fuel mileage for a car this age!!!

So, here is the link to the video I uploaded of the codes:
YouTube - ‪taloncodes.avi‬‏

Karin

 

[i3oi3c78]

All I got out of that is.
1st code 12= the battery was disconnected
2nd code 72= srs system
3rd code 32= open or shorted condition detected in the EGR solenoid circuit
4th code 31= evap system fault
5th code 31= evap
6th code 55= end "stop test"
I hope that helps

 

[bkvail]

I'm confused why it said the battery was disconnected, because it hasn't been. Weird. I did put it on the charger overnight, but it wasn't ever completely dead.

Which of those codes would cause it to not start?

 

[i3oi3c78]

It's funny, I don't think any of these codes would make it not start. Are you sure your fuel pump is turning on? Can you here it prime when the key is switched to the on position?

 

[bkvail]

yes, the fuel pump is most definitely coming on and priming each time I turn the ignition on........

 

[H4G64T]

I'm confused as to why you don't use a damn code reader.

 

[luv2rallye]

I'm confused as to why you don't use a damn code reader.

2g NT flashes the code using the key dance method.

BTW 31 is Evap solenoid circuit. And 12 is power removed from PCM within last 50 key on cycles - but without a date this could have been anytime. Power is removed from the PCM by removing the 30A "Engine fuse" as well as the battery.

None of these codes should prevent it from starting.

 

[bkvail]

I'm confused as to why you don't use a damn code reader.

I'm sorry, I don't own a code reader at this time, and I can't get it to start to take it to an autozone to get the codes read. I did what I could at the time.

2g NT flashes the code using the key dance method.

BTW 31 is Evap solenoid circuit. And 12 is power removed from PCM within last 50 key on cycles - but without a date this could have been anytime. Power is removed from the PCM by removing the 30A "Engine fuse" as well as the battery.

Which is really weird, because I have not had the battery disconnected for over a year that I can think of - and it's never been completely dead either in that time. It did go low after trying to start it, so I put a trickle charger on it overnight.

The evap solenioid circuit wouldn't cause it to not start either would it? I"m mystified what to do next..... I have a Chilton for 90-98, but the code chart with the possible fix's is only is for the 1G's

 

[brandonwh64]

I have found out that if you are going to own a DSM then a ECU code reader is a must.

 

[bkvail]

I have found out that if you are going to own a DSM then a ECU code reader is a must.

well, payday was yesterday, so I will pick one up in town today and post the results........... would autozone be the best place to pick one up? We also have Napa, Carquest, and O'Rileys (Schucks) local......

 

[brandonwh64]

Well you can get one cheap offline if you feel like ordering one but autozones cheap version is like 30$

http://www.autotoolsmall.com/u380-obdii-obd2-eobd-engine-scanner-trouble-code-reader-p-69.html

 

[bkvail]

Well you can get one cheap offline if you feel like ordering one but autozones cheap version is like 30$

U380 OBDII OBD2 EOBD Engine Scanner Trouble Code Reader U380 OBDII OBD2 EOBD Engine Scanner Trouble Code Reader [CS28] - US$17.95 : Wholesale and retail car key programmer and other Auto diagnostic tools from China.

I think I'd rather pick one up so I can work on the car this week. My business is really slow right now, so the timing is right to work on it - $30 isn't bad, I was thinking I saw one a while back for $50 at autozone - I'm guessing the more expensive one's might be better for more info maybe? Or are they all the same?

 

[luv2rallye]

If you want more useful and detailed info you'll probably have to pay over $150 for one and even then probably would have to have the real Mitsubishi factory manual to understand those details (eg. freeze frame display). The cheap ones (<$50) I think only give you the error code (which in a 2g NT you already get) and allow you to reset the codes and check engine light. Brandonwh64 correct me if I'm wrong about the useful details in the cheap ones. But as I said your codes are not why your engine is not starting.

 

[bkvail]

If you want more useful and detailed info you'll probably have to pay over $150 for one and even then probably would have to have the real Mitsubishi factory manual to understand those details. The cheap ones (<$50) I think only give you the error code (which in a 2g NT you already get) and allow you to reset the codes and check engine light. Brandonwh64 correct me if I'm wrong about the useful details in the cheap ones.

ah, interesting! I certainly am not ready to spend more than $150 for it, so now I'm not sure! I had a hard time distinguishing the flashes (what they considered long vs. short flash). I had a whole different set of numbers that I had written down I thought the codes flashes might be!

I'm still stuck though..... I'm going to go ahead and put new fuel and a fuel filter in it and go from there I guess.......

 

[luv2rallye]

Here's how to read your flashes: 2GNT.com - PCM_Error_Codes

Read the specs in your typical code reader (cheapest one in the Autozone store my friend just got) here to see what they don't give you: Actron/OBD II code reader for 1996 and newer vehicles (CP9125) | Code Reader | AutoZone.com

 

[bkvail]

Here's how to read your flashes: 2GNT.com - PCM_Error_Codes

Read the specs in your typical code reader (cheapest one in the Autozone store my friend just got) here to see what they don't give you: Actron/OBD II code reader for 1996 and newer vehicles (CP9125) | Code Reader | AutoZone.com

that chart will be super helpful, thanks so much!

I'll go ahead and get that $60 code reader at autozone today - we have other cars it can be used other times too! Our Suburban and our Outback both have had the CEL come on for ''misfire'' before (which fuel injector cleaner additive fixed), so it will be nice to have in the shop anyhow.

 

[joel_greco]

did you mess with the wire harness at all?

 

[bkvail]

did you mess with the wire harness at all?

nope, haven't touched it before or after it quit starting.......

 

[TSI_AWD_FTW]

Test for spark by pulling a plug wire and putting a screw driver in it and crank it and see if it will arc on to a ground, try it on all cylinders

 

[bkvail]

Test for spark by pulling a plug wire and putting a screw driver in it and crank it and see if it will arc on to a ground, try it on all cylinders

we did a test from one cylinder (the furthest one on the passenger side), and it had spark.

Well, the code reader reads PO401 and PO420 only. The EGR system and the catalytic converter. So, I'm back to square one and now I need to find the location of that pesky fuel filter......

well, located the fuel filter, removed it, and of course the replacement I got is not the right one, GRRR. But, the old one is definitely restricted, so maybe I'll luck out and that be the issue!

 

[bkvail]

well, I'm not sure what all did the trick, but it's running again (and feels great!). Thing I did:

replaced fuel filter
replaced PCV valve
replaced coolant temp sensor

it still would start after those things, but I would try a couple times a day to start it, then the battery would start to go low again so I would put it on the trickle charger. Finally, today we tried two different times and the second time it started. Wasn't easy, but once it 'caught', it ran great pretty quick. I'm wondering if maybe there was an air lock in the fuel system from changing the filter???