95 Talon AWD grinds in 4th & reverse

[kre8ive_kustomz]

okay, so heres my issue, i have awd talon i just picked up yesterday. The transmission goes fine in all gears but 4th & reverse. In reverse it pops out and starts grinding almost right away and 4th only grinds. I'm thrown off a bit as the previous owner installed a short throw shifter. I pulled the center consil out, nothing was hitting and looked well, i looked at the counterweights on the front linkage, looked okay too. the clutch sounds like its catching a bit in neutral also, the car moved forwars slightly. i looked at the slave cylinder to see if i threw an extension piece in if it might work, there was some slack so i installed that shaft as well as the cylinder as i had a spare and made no difference. i guess im rambling on a bit but im wondering if anyone has has the same issue. ive seen the forums with 2nd, 4th and rev as a problem but 2nd works great. the previous owner said this issue only started happening after he had the cluth replaced. i have another transmission if i have to use it, just trying to use alternate measures first. any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JackM]

If reverse pops out it could be the straight cut teeth are worn flat on the 1/2 slider and rev idler gear. If that is the case- unless you have the gear perfectly aligned when going into rev, it will pop out. 4th sounds like it has a dead synchro.

Jack

 

[kre8ive_kustomz]

sucks if thats the case, this is my 2nd awd dsm and the first one i only had a couple weeks. My spare transmission i assume wont work as it is a fwd. earlier i was thinking the transmissions were the same and the awd just added the transfer case but thinking about it for the past hour im doubting that now. are these rebuild parts redily available? ive only seen full kits and partial kits around, im wondering if i only need a synchro or something if i can get one single one. my garage is now cluttered with 4 2g dsm's so needless to say being cheap and owning these cars blows. looks like if i have to rebuild this my spare motor rebuild fund is gonna go down. is there a diagram anywhere that shows the gear positions relative to the counterweight position? maybe i can manually put it in those gears and see if the problem persists. one last question, the awd looks pretty beefy under there, is dropping the transmission any different than a fwd? last fwd i swapped only took a couple hours and i just pivoted the engine but by the looks of the space under the car there isnt a whole lot of room for that with the awd. if anyone in the green bay wi area has this art down to a "T" and needs some custom bodywork done lets make a deal and for those who are wondering why i keep ramblin on i just had acl reconstruction #2 on my knee and the meds wont let me shut up.... i do apologize. thanks all

 

[JackM]

The AWD just has the t-case in the way but should still be about the same to R&I. If you take pics of the parts you need, I can sell them to you. I carry all parts new and used. The AWD tranny is a completely different animal on the inside than the FWD.

Jack

 

[kre8ive_kustomz]

Thanks Jack, I will do that. It's going to take me a few days, shes up on stands right now replacing a nasty rear bearing which is turning into bearing/hub/shaft I took the cables off the transmission yesterday and it seemed like reverse went further in, not so much in 4th, i will test it out once the back wheel isnt wobbling.

 

[kre8ive_kustomz]

well, i took the cables off the transmission and manually tried 4th & reverse with the same results, wont go in gear and with the car up on stands only grinds so tomorrow she comes out, hopefully my manual has info on cracking open the tranny case. what i dont understand is that with the car off and trying to put it into gear on top of the tranny i can hear a clunk and feel its not going in all the way in both gears, i guess i'll know more when i take it apart.

 

[kre8ive_kustomz]

Heres a couple pictures, im confused as to what the issue is, with the input shaft out the 4th gear hub & sleeve slides freely over the synchro, other than that 4th gear itself has no flaws, no mis-formed teeth or anything. i dont really know why it wont go into the gear when in place. as for reverse, the gear sets are a little chewed up, should still work with the little bit of wear thats there, i did find that the part circled in orange does not move to reverse freely, however if i lift just a bit on the green area it slides right in, i did this with the second portion of the case off, if that matters at all. i assume those parts are the sliders, all 3 look good but the one for sure isnt functioning properly, since they all work together could one of them be the issue 4th isnt working? heres the pics, i can take more but i didnt see any other issues.

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[JackM]

Look at the engagement teeth for 4th gear and the slider teeth. See if there are witness marks on the teeth. Also, if you set your focus on your camera to the 'flower' you can take close up pics in focus.

Jack

 

[kre8ive_kustomz]

i tried using that setting on my camera, loks good up till i transfer it to the computer then it gets blurry.... anyway, if the arrowed piece is the engagement teeth they all took good, i had the slider out last night and the inside all looked good, the second picture is the part i have to lift on to get into reverse, could there be a problem with these? i didnt take notice shifting through the gears while everything was apart if 4th worked. what is this assembly called? i could feel a binding in reverse until lifted but didnt see any issues, it might have been a lack of sleep at 2:00 this morning when i removed these pieces but i dont quite understand the operation of them, they appear to be sliding pieces but they only slide in certain positions. does a 95fwd transmission have the same internal setup? maybe i can compare the two and see the difference, the awd doesnt look worn to me.

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[kre8ive_kustomz]

I'm about 90% sure i found whats causing both issues.... i put the intermediate and input shafts back in to see why reverse wasn't fully engaging. what i noticed was when i moved the back thing (#1 in picture) up reverse would fully engage. i had this assembly apart an hour prior to clean and found how the setup works. it seems like that semi-round pin thats between the two sliding shafts isnt lockin in, when i pull that back thing up i can feel it release a little then lock in, then it will be in reverse completely. theres approx. 3/16" of play where i would assume there should be very little. what i found with 4th is that when i bring it down into 3rd the slider goes very close to the gear over the engaging teeth, when i bring it up into 4th it barely covers the engaging teeth, i can however pull the slider up into 4th gear engaging teeth by moving the slider itself, there is just a hair over 1/8" play between the lower side of the fork and the slider. (#2) i can see the area on the fork where its worn, during dissassemble i assumed it was machined down, not realizing how much extra space there was. im incliding a picture from twingles.com incase im refering to parts via the wrong names, which i probably am, hopefully they dont mind.
i know the shift fork is only like 30 bucks but if i have to replace those sliding rails, the semi-round pin or the piece the two rails slide in, are those parts available or would they be dealer parts? Thanks, john

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[kre8ive_kustomz]

after i reassembled the gear assembly's and rails into the transaxle, with everything reassembled reverse doesnt go down all the way and when i put it in 4th the reverse idler gear lowers into reverse so it seams when trying to engage 4th ite transmission is trying to go into both reverse and 4th at the same time. looks like i do need the sliding rails and the one shift fork, but now that i know what i need i have no idea where to parts other than the fork. i pulled apart my spare fwd tranny but they length of the rails is different and the fork will work but its only got 1/16" less wear than the origional.... and i also need to get that plastic piece that sits against the wall of the tranny, i broke the one in the fwd but i atleast have a part number for that one. if anyone knows where i can get the rails and the piece that holds the semi-round pin i would appreciate some help. thanks all

 

[kre8ive_kustomz]

since i wasnt sure if my issue was with the shift rails or the interlock i ordered both. my shopping list consisted of the 3/4 fork, 3/4 shift rail, 5/r shift rail, 3/4-5/r interlock, interlock pin, oil guide and 4 fork pins... i didnt think it was that bad, just under $95.00 for everything.... since i got no replies from the classifieds section looks like i get to buy a complete rear right axle, not too enthused about spending another 185 since ive only had the car for a week and put 350 into it... but oh well, still got one hell of a deal.