95 awd has no power

[huafist]

Hey guys,
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I am fairly new to 2g dsms, especially failure modes. I picked up a 95 awd that had been sitting for 3 years due to a clutch issue (fixed now). However, now there's another set of issues:

1) the car has no power to speak of. I think a 3 cylinder rabbit would outrun it.
2) the car will start and run fine, but if you turn it off, the next start will be for 4 seconds, then it dies. This continues until you pull the battery and reset the ecu.

There are 2 senarios I see:

1) a bad CAS is causing the ecu to not advance timing, resulting in the poor performance. This would also explain the starting and dying.

2) the ECU has leaky caps. I do not know what the symptoms of a bad ecu in a 2g are, so this is a guess.



Any ideas?

 

[NHerron]

Test the coolant temp sensor, ECU may think coolant is -74*F so runs super rich, hard to start on hot day, dies after warming up, no power all kinds of stuff

(scroll down toward bottom of first post)
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

Or this link
DSM simple test page

 

[huafist]

It's not overly rich according to the wideband (stoich @ idle, 13 - stoich cruise), but I'll check it as well.

ECU has been ruled out as a cause. I pulled it a few minutes ago and inspected it. It's pristine. I actually think the previous owner had me replace the caps several years ago and socket it, after looking at it.

 

[NHerron]

Any DTC's ? When key is first on does the check engine light turn on for 5 seconds then shut off?

 

[huafist]

Any DTC's ? When key is first on does the check engine light turns on for 5 seconds then shut off?

Haven't checked DTC's yet, as I'm having an issue getting DSMLink to connect to the laptop ; I'm going to try the serial cable I use to tune AEM & Megasquirt setups to see if maybe the cable that came with the car is bad. If that's not the case, then the DSMLink box is bad, and it's as good an excuse as any to upgrade to v3. Yes, the CEL does come on for 5 seconds while the ECU boots, then turns off after the ECU starts successfully.

I'm leaning more & more towards a faulty cam sensor. I have a brand new one sitting in a box on the shelf, or I may bite the bullet and swap to a 1G (I have two of them on the shelf as well ). My cams & springs will be here next week, and I'll do it all at the same time then.

 

[NHerron]

Wouldn't be a bad swap to do 1g since link can convert the signals, make sure to swap plug wires according to dsmlinks guide if ya didn't know that already

Correct if wrong but you could even leave the crank and cam sensors bolted in as is, just cut the wires and wire in the 1G so no sweatin over tearing into the timing cover and all that fun stuff

 

[huafist]

Wouldn't be a bad swap to do 1g since link can convert the signals, make sure to swap plug wires according to dsmlinks guide if ya didn't know that already

Correct if wrong but you could even leave the crank and cam sensors bolted in as is, just cut the wires and wire in the 1G so no sweatin over tearing into the timing cover and all that fun stuff

Well, if memory serves, the intake cam in the '95/'96 models would have to be modified to accept the 1g cas. It doesn't matter anyway, because I'm installing a set of Kelford 272's later this week and could remove the stock CMP/CKP sensors while I have the timing covers off for the cam swap. At this point, I guess I just have to decide for myself which way I want to go with that.

Update: got DSMLink to connect using the serial cable I use to tune Megasquirt and AEM setups. Of course, there aren't any DTC's stored right now due to the fact I had the ECU out earlier checking the caps. I'll drive it to the gas station tomorrow and then check the DTC's.

Confirmed today there's no timing advance being applied. Set the boost gauge in the car to reflect timing advance using DSMLink, and it never moves. I'm betting the faulty CAS is causing the ECU to lock timing.

 

[NHerron]

Yeah I suppose you would already be delving into the timing cover already when installing a set of Cams.

No advance at all? Hmm that would be a miserable feel...I have no ideas on that one and I didn't realize the sensors could be responsible for it

The 95/96 intake cam wouldn't need any modification, it already has the slot for the CAS. When you ordered the Cams did they offer them in different CAS styles via an option? If you selected 95/96 the cams might not come with a slot on the end since technically there is no stock sensor operating from there

 

[huafist]

Yeah I suppose you would already be delving into the timing cover already when installing a set of Cams.

No advance at all? Hmm that would be a miserable feel...I have no ideas on that one and I didn't realize the sensors could be responsible for it

The 95/96 intake cam wouldn't need any modification, it already has the slot for the CAS. When you ordered the Cams did they offer them in different CAS styles via an option? If you selected 95/96 the cams might not come with a slot on the end since technically there is no stock sensor operating from there

Faulty CAS is confirmed by a DTC thrown when the problem of starting then stalling occurs.

I was under the impression that the stock 95/96 cams did not have the slot for the CAS. I know for a fact all aftermarket DSM cams have the slot. I'm going to pull the covers and see if there's a way I can replace the CAS without pulling the cam gears. I want to drive the car while I'm waiting on cams . I'll update later with more info on that.

Update:
I decided to go ahead and install the new CAS this afternoon. I pulled everything apart, and wouldn't you know it, the parts store gave me the wrong friggin' sensor - so, I decided "screw it, I'm switching to a 1G CAS" - my understanding of 95/96 camshafts was incorrect: They will accept a 1G CAS with no modification just like all other year DSMs. I also found that the car still had balance shafts, and the front shaft belt had broken. It somehow wedged itself in a position behind the hydraulic tensioner that kept it out of the timing belt's path. I have NEVER seen one break and not get tangled up, so I guess the previous owner was just lucky .

At this point, I have the car torn down waiting on the Kelfords & springs to arrive, then I'll put it all back together with the 1G CAS (already wired, and already repinned everything necessary to make it run). I'd like to go ahead and do a BSE, but damn I don't wanna drop the downpipe and transfer case again to get the oil pan off .

 

[skizzo81]

just drill and tap the cam to accept the other cam sensor.

 

[huafist]

just drill and tap the cam to accept the other cam sensor.

Did you even read the previous post?

To do an update, I went ahead and did the BSE, replaced the valve stem seals, installed the springs & kelford cams, 1G CAS, and did the required wiring mods. I'm still having some issues, but I'm fairly certain they're related to boost leaks and an out-of-whack tune (both of which I am working on when I have the time.) Thinking about swapping to a Q45 throttle body, since I can get one for free. Need to replace the convoluted IC piping as well.

 

[NHerron]

Did you get your timing back once you got the CAS replaced? How do you like the 272's? I would hope things are much better since you upgraded and fixed

 

[huafist]

Did you get your timing back once you got the CAS replaced? How do you like the 272's? I would hope things are much better since you upgraded and fixed

Yeah, replacing the CAS solved the timing issues - I've still got others though, including a ton of boost leaks - most of which I'm not going to worry about fixing, I'm just going to replace all of the intercooler piping. It's ghetto and not worth fixing leaks in. The other leak is the TB shaft seals, which I'm replacing next week. Hopefully this solves a lot of the issues the car is having while driving.

 

[huafist]

Replaced the throttle shaft seals today. Still got a leak somewhere, and I'm beginning to suspect the ISC is faulty. Also have a random misfire issue that's cropping up, but overall it's coming together nicely.

 

[NHerron]

This should help
DSM ISC motor testing & Replacement - YouTube

 

[huafist]

Nice! Wish I'd seen that while I had the TB off of the car

 

[NHerron]

It's super easy, I love that video. Just move the battery out the way, pull off the ISC connector, get a nut driver (easier than a Philips) and zip that puppy off in 20 seconds. Two screws, one on each side