6 Bolt Swap Problems...car Won't Turn

[Foreverfalcon40]

So everything is in, car won't start. I have no vacuum lines yet hooked up, just wanted to hear the motor run a little but before I start getting all into it before I have to tear down due to a problem.

I followed the magnusmotorsports faq on the swap.

Right now I still have a few plugs that remain not connected to their appropiate female counterpart.

1) The little black box aka power transistor, is impossible to plug into. SO I mounted the power transistor from my seven bolt, instead of splicing all these wires. Any difference from the 6 to the 7 bolt power transistor?

2) There is no map sensor on the 6-bolt, do I need mine from the 7 bolt?

3) Also there are two- 3 sensors that are on my 2g head that run from ABCDE on the TB. DO I need to move those sesnors to my 6 bolt head?

4) There is no crank sensor on the 6 bolt. I have the Plug and play harness so there is no wiring. Where do these exactly go just to make sure!

5) Also, on the injector clip there is a long skinny black connector (I think its the ground for the injecotr harness) where the hell does that go?

6) I have the car on a lift and I can't find where the plug from the coil pack comes out but I think I have it plugged into one of the connectors from CAS is that right?

7) As of right now out of the injector harness is a triangle shaped connector that has no mate?

8) Coming from the bottom of block up is a over/rectangle connector that also has no mate where does this go?

If pics are needed, I will provide them on Monday first thing in the mourning. Those will do for now!

 

[architechnik]

Will the engine not turn over at all or is it not staying on?

Do you have pictures of these items so we can maybe determine what/where you are talking about?

3 The connectors are likely the TPS (throttle position sensor) and IAT (intake air temp) sensor.

5 + 7 You have two connectors for the injector harness, but they don't match - are they the same number of pins/same colors for the wires?

8 The one near the bottom of the engine sounds like it could be the engine oil temp sensor, but without more information, I can't be sure. Is it near an oil feed?

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

Pictures will be posted first thing MONDAY!

Now, I go to start the car, and it just won't start. You could hear all cylinders fired...so far they sound good. But it just won;t take the extra step to start. The car is getting fuel....could smell it.

3) Do I need to swap those over for my 6 bolt?

5 + 7) No they are different connectors themselves.

8) Its on the bottom of the block behind the engine of it self. Comes about to the top of the head and can't be pulled anymore.

 

[numlock666]

So everything is in, car won't start. I have no vacuum lines yet hooked up, just wanted to hear the motor run a little but before I start getting all into it before I have to tear down due to a problem.

I followed the magnusmotorsports faq on the swap.

Right now I still have a few plugs that remain not connected to their appropiate female counterpart.

1) The little black box aka power transistor, is impossible to plug into. SO I mounted the power transistor from my seven bolt, instead of splicing all these wires. Any difference from the 6 to the 7 bolt power transistor?

I moved my transistor pack to the other side of the minifold and bolted it up to where the EGR used to bolt on. Just using those tapped holes since I have have it blocked off.

2) There is no map sensor on the 6-bolt, do I need mine from the 7 bolt?

No if you don't mind the CEL. What I did was got a large enough rubber hose from Autozone, just take the sensor there and ask for a hose that will fit around the end of it, the whole part that used to go into the Manifold. Then at the end of the hose put a hose barb from the plubing dept. at Home Depot there so you can run a vac line from the sensor to the P port on your TB.

3) Also there are two- 3 sensors that are on my 2g head that run from ABCDE on the TB. DO I need to move those sesnors to my 6 bolt head?

re phrase that, I ont know what you mean.

4) There is no crank sensor on the 6 bolt. I have the Plug and play harness so there is no wiring. Where do these exactly go just to make sure?

It goes from the Cam Angle Sensor from the six bolt (little green top orb looking thing on the left side of the head opposite of the intake cam gear) to your 7bolt harness where the CAM and crank sensor used to plug in. One is a square plug and one is a triangular plug and should be located near the cam gears if you have your harness routed correctly.

5) Also, on the injector clip there is a long skinny black connector (I think its the ground for the injecotr harness) where the hell does that go?

I don't know what its called, it looks like a tiny capacitor with one black wire comming out of it, its probably still on your 7bolt manifold. Anyone know what its called or what it does?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a163/numlock666/capacitor.jpg

6) I have the car on a lift and I can't find where the plug from the coil pack comes out but I think I have it plugged into one of the connectors from CAS is that right?

Uhhh no. The coil get its signal from the Transistor pack, that connector comes off the harness, yes its a three prong but definitly not the one that comes from the CAS.

7) As of right now out of the injector harness is a triangle shaped connector that has no mate?

This one is either your Coil pack connector or you Crank Angle sensor. The Crank sensor has a Black, Blue, and Red Wire.

8) Coming from the bottom of block up is a over/rectangle connector that also has no mate where does this go?

This is probably your Cam Sensor, Same color wires, Black, Red and Blue.

The Cam and Crank Sensor wires hook up to that plug and play harness, and the other end hooks up the the 1G CAS.

If pics are needed, I will provide them on Monday first thing in the mourning. Those will do for now!

Hope this helps, PM me if you have any other questions or would like any reference pics of my 6bolt. Also Reputation points would be nice.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

Those helped a little bit, but as of right now the car has no Igniton Spark and the injecotrs are not pumping fuel into the motor!

 

[numlock666]

well for ignition, are you sure you plugged your coils into the right harness? Also make sure your Transistor Pack is plugged in. But fuel and spark is controlled by the MPI relay.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

Its plugged in but itsd from my 7 bolt and not from the 6 bolt. I dont think its malfunctioning it worked mmy 7 bolt before I pulled the motor. Whats MPI relay?

 

[numlock666]

You use all electronics, and sensors from the 7 bolt. Only thing you don't use is the Cam and Crank sensors from the 7Bolt, they both get replaced with the 6bolt CAS sensor. Show some pictures of your wiring job, I bet theres something plugged in right, also there is another triagular plug near were the coils plug into, that one is for the AC copressor. I'll try to get the wire colors for you.

MPI Relay
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263224&highlight=MPI

I highly doubt its the relay though, if your CAS is not hooked up right, I assume you wont get Fuel and Spark.

 

[TSG59_Steve]

I have a feeling he has at least one of those three triangular plugs on the right side mixed up. One goes into the RRE harness, one into the coilpack, and one into the AC compressor.

 

[numlock666]

thats what i think, and i think its the one thats supposed to go to his CAS, one reason you wont get fuel and spark.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

What do you mean mis align the CAS Plug? I uninstalled the CAS to paint it. Once I finished painting it I re-installed it. I realized when putting it in, It had to put in a certain way in order for it to fit the slit, i think it was on an angle or just sraight up and down. Not to sure which was but I know that. I do have pic of the triagle plug that comes from injecotr harness that has not found a home yet BUT my pic exceeds the forum KB per pic unit. I am not computer savy in anyway what so ever how do I make the pic fit forum limits?

 

[Defiant]

I don't know what its called, it looks like a tiny capacitor with one black wire coming out of it, its probably still on your 7bolt manifold. Anyone know what its called or what it does?

It's a noise suppressor for the radio.

 

[numlock666]

It's a noise suppressor for the radio.

Really?!?! OMFG I thought it was more important.

 

[4G2NV]

the mpi relay?? behind the radio next to the ecu?

 

[numlock666]

we didnt say you misaglinged the CAS installin it into the head (though it is possible to have it 180 degrees off) but we are saying you have an error in your wiring, as far as plugging in your 1g CAS into a 2G injector harness.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

It's a noise suppressor for the radio.

I thought that was a ground for my sensor.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

we didnt say you misaglinged the CAS installin it into the head (though it is possible to have it 180 degrees off) but we are saying you have an error in your wiring, as far as plugging in your 1g CAS into a 2G injector harness.

I'm not arguing with you, I am not a mechanic...this car and my intentions made me one. Wiring is not my forte let alone i'm reaching my limits. I can wire a stero, but not a car. I've been trying to match up wires color color wise but with very little success. CAS plug I'm not arguing with you about the CAS, I'm just telling you how I re-stalled it. I did notice on the CAS that it can be moved by the sliding brackets.

 

[numlock666]

well my first time I wired up my 6bolt I was stuck or 3 days trying to figure out where a triangular plug went that was long and hung way down below the head. I was stumpped until a friend mentioned how bad its going to be in he summer without AC and it hit me. . But best and easiest thing to do is have a buddy with a 2G or any local DSMer with a 2G come by with thier 2G and use it as a reference. And yhea the CAS can be adjusted with the sliding bracket, thats for adjusting the ignition timing, just for now let it set at mid adjustment. By the way what year is the car?? If it is a 95-96 the two plugs for the CAM and Crank signal is at the end of the injector harness, about the same length too. One is squareish and one is triangle. Both with three wires, (Red, Black, and Blue with a stripe). And the coil plug is about halfway across the intake manifold on the injector harness (two blue wires and and i think 1 black or red I forget.)

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

OK finally, I have spark in the injectors. Car sounds alot healthier, but I just tried turning it over with very minimal vacuum lines connected. It sound slike the timing is off, but out of the Intake manifold...sparks shoot out! How does that happen?

 

[Talonracn50]

ignition timing being off made the sparks. The spark plug fired while the intake valve was open.

Make sure you followed ALL of the directions, I think you need to swap plug wires.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

What do you swap the plug wires? I got the NGk gapped correctly and spark plug wires in correctly...I think its 4231 or somethign like that. I check the data on all the years from 90-99 and its the same spark plug pattern. Could it be the CAS? When I installed it, I just slid it in to match the lining on the inside.

 

[Talonracn50]

Yes, it could be the CAS, try turning the rotor 180 degrees and then reinstall.

Since you are using the CAS, the signal is inverted from what the computer thinks it should be, so you need to switch the firing order from 4123 to 2341. Its firing the wrong coil currently. One coil controls 41 and the other controls 23, switch the plug wires.

Roadraceengineering.com has a really good write up on this stuff. Go to the magazine article and tech section and look under 95/96 1G in a 2G.

 

[Talonracn50]

note: you need to change the coil wires anyway, regardless of whether the CAS is 180 out or not.

 

[numlock666]

cylinders 1+4 at at TDC at the same time, this they fire at the same time, and 2+3 fire at the same time. But the signal from our 2g ECU fire is 1423 or 4123 or 1432 or 4132. See how i did that? its always 14 and 23. But 1G CAS signals of where the engine is in the RPM is backwards. So if 1 was bdc it woudl tell the ECU it was at TDC thus firing at the end of the intake stroke. BAsicly you swap wires from coil 1+4 to coil 2+3 and vice versa

 

[mikelv]

cylinders 1+4 at at TDC at the same time, this they fire at the same time, and 2+3 fire at the same time. But the signal from our 2g ECU fire is 1423 or 4123 or 1432 or 4132. See how i did that? its always 14 and 23. But 1G CAS signals of where the engine is in the RPM is backwards. So if 1 was bdc it woudl tell the ECU it was at TDC thus firing at the end of the intake stroke. BAsicly you swap wires from coil 1+4 to coil 2+3 and vice versa

Would inverting CAS with DSMLink correct this problem, or would you still have to reverse firing order?
I'm having the same problems this guy did.

In think Talonracn50 answered this question above you.