50trim vs 60-1

[WhiteKnightfwd]

Which is more efficient at around 25psi? Still debating with these two turbos. The only reason drawing me back from the 60-1 is overrunning the factory 2g maf. My goals are to surpass the 500whp.

 

[delta448]

turbonetics compressor maps

and

how to read them

Also, this link is a page with a turbo calculator of sorts, it will allow you to enter the parameters you want and plot the point onto a compressor map that you choose from a drop down menu.

 

[dsm-onster]

Is the 60-1 you're comparing have a T04B or T04E compressor cover? This seams to really change the efficiency of the 60-1 compressor wheel. So if you're looking at the T-netics compressor map of the 60-1 you'll think that this compressor is not what it's cracked up to be, because it is a map of the T04B 60-1.

Unfortunately, there is no compressor map to give you a straight answer. The T04E 60-1 is much more efficient than the T04E 50-trim at 30 psi. But the T04E 50-trim is more efficient than the T04E 60-1 at 20 psi. In the E cover, the 60-1 has been shown to do pretty decent on pump gas. See SBR. Nate likes this wheel on the FWD. So somewhere between 20 and 30 psi the compressor efficiencies converge and they are the same. It might be at 25 psi. But who knows? Compressor efficiency is not quite as important as one may think. Use the DSM_Tuning_sheet_v2.1.xls to see this and help you decide on the turbo that is right for you. Just know that guys have ran 30+ psi w/ the 60-1 on hot cams and higher than stock rev limits and had great results. FWIW, the 50-trim is dubbed the "pump gas king" as it shows decent efficiency numbers no matter where you're boosting at and flows rather well at lower pump gas friendly boost levels.

Remember that efficiency does help with detonation suppression as hot air and gas likes to explode prematurely (detonation). But a good intercooler and/or water injection is paramount for these turbos regardless and the spreadsheet will calculate your theoretical aircharge temps incuding intercooler efficiency to keep the aircharge temp down no matter what turbo you're running.

A 50-trim and a60-1 with the same center section and same turbine wheel and same turbine housing will spool about the same. The 60-1 compressor wheel obviously is more rotating mass. But the hotside flow really is the primary factor that influences spool.

In all the 60-1 compressor whee is rated at 60 lbs/min. I don't know if this rating is w/ the b cover, the e cover, or w/out a cover , if that's even possible. I would ASSume the b cover. The 50-trim is rated for 49 lbs/min. Again, I have no idea to which cover this rating is coupled. So the 60-1 will flow enough air for over 100 horsepower more than the 50-trim. But the hotside will limit you. If you get a faster spooling hot side you cannot take advantage of the 60-1 flow potential as a fast spooling hot side destroys overall volumetric efficiency by restricting exhaust flow.

I have a T3 stage 3 (t31 wheel) w/ a bullseye turbine housing (.55 a/r ratio). This lends to decent spool, but I will never get 600 horsepower out of the 60-1 compressor even though it is rated for that maximum. I should have gotten a stage 5 (t350).

Guys say all the time that the 50-trim compressor wheel "loves" the t3 stage 3 (t31) wheel. It offers the good spool and the compressor doesn't need any more flow out the tailpipe to get it to it's full potential.

Sorry for the crash course here. Just trying to describe a turbo that has no compressor map . It seams that at 25 psi either are good. The 60-1 will spool a little slower but give you more room for growth. Buy, right buy once... Other than running 25 psi what are your goals?

 

[delta448]

Is the 60-1 you're comparing have a T04B or T04E compressor cover? This seams to really change the efficiency of the 60-1 compressor wheel. So if you're looking at the T-netics compressor map of the 60-1 you'll think that this compressor is not what it's cracked up to be, because it is a map of the T04B 60-1.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both the T04B and T04E compressors among the maps listed?

T04B

T04E

 

[4G63Boosted]

The TO4E map listed is a 60 trim compressor wheel, not the 60-1.

 

[dsm-onster]

There's a significant difference between the t4 60-trim and the 60-1. 60-1 is rated at 60 lbs/min. That number is so far off the t4 60-trim's map that it is not even funny .

As far as I know, there is no compressor map for the T04E 60-1. Anyone who has a compressor map, PLEASE chime in and give it up. I'd even pay for it .

 

[delta448]

Okay, so please forgive my ignorance on this everyone, and for getting slightly off-topic, but can anyone tell me what the "60-1" number code refers to? Is this a reference to ratios or something? I am very intrigued about this massive flowing turbo, and I also would love to see an efficency map for it.

 

[WhiteKnightfwd]

My goals are around the 450whp range. I plan on running about 28psi. I dont want to go big of a turbo yet until I learn more about the car and get proper tranny mods to handle the power. Maybe later I will get a fp3065 or a AGP Rs65.

 

[dsm-onster]

My goals are around the 450whp range. I plan on running about 28psi. I dont want to go big of a turbo yet until I learn more about the car and get proper tranny mods to handle the power. Maybe later I will get a fp3065 or a AGP Rs65.

So are you planing on running 450whp wiht the stock tranny? Or are you saying that you'll be shooting for 450whp later when you maybe get a fp3065 or RS65?

450whp has been know to shread transmissions when running AWD and a decent clutch. It all depends on your launch. To do a decent launch that won't bog, even the output of a 16g will break your tranny after a little time, IMHO. It has been shown to be this way from guys reporting here.

 

[WhiteKnightfwd]

Plan on 450whp with this current setup. Tranny mods as of now are act2600 clutch and fidanza flywheel. My car is fwd.

 

[dsm-onster]

Okay, so please forgive my ignorance on this everyone, and for getting slightly off-topic, but can anyone tell me what the "60-1" number code refers to? Is this a reference to ratio of compressor to turbine sizes or something? I am very intrigued about this massive flowing turbo, and I also would love to see an efficency map for it.

The 60-1 has a 59 mm wheel. That is: 59 mm(2.32 inches) inducer diameter. It has a 3 inch exduce dimeter.

I was told that it has the larger inducer diameter (part of the compressorwheel that you see when you look into the compressorciver at the inlet) of the T04E 60-trim. And that it has the larger exducer diameter of the 50-trim (outside diamter blade tips w/ compressor cover off)

The larger inducer "sucks" more air in per revolution and the larger exducer diameter lends to more efficiency at higher boost.

This is all I know. Perhaps I'll pop off the compressor cover and measure the diameters of my 60-1 .

 

[dsm-onster]

Plan on 450whp with this current setup. Tranny mods as of now are act2600 clutch and fidanza flywheel. My car is fwd.

I'm a turd . I should have asked. I have a high milage FWD and running a 60-1 I am looking 500whp in the next fuew monts. W/ my sbr 3500 clutch, it has held up fine... I will not need a tranny upgrade unless i want to rev to 8k comsistantly. No stock tranny likes to shift this high. But nevertheless, you're tires take the beating and not the tranny with FWD. So you're good to go. If you DO manage to get traction in the future, you'll definately want to upgrade. 55 mph burnouts!

 

[WhiteKnightfwd]

Hey what you think about an insert lsd? What you using?

 

[dsm-onster]

I love mine. Both my wheel spull hard and evenly even with dips in the road, gravel, partially wet, no matter what. It still performs the same even when I turne dup the boost to 28+ psi on my 18G and my FP2X cams. I know I was putting dowm close to or over 400whp... SBR uses an insert on their 400whp FWD. . . I experienced semi-traction for the first time and my head hit the ceiling on my 3rd launch after installing the insert. I still burned but it was both tires and it still planted me. I've stomped my Dad's souped up GN and my own T-bird TC. Both RWD ( good squating) both w/ true limited slip.

 

[2roll4life7]

I can't find the compressor map, but I have a 60-1 tO4S, which has a bigger inlet and outlet over the tO4E. I believe the tO4S is a 4 inch inlet 2.5 out. Once my fuel setup is in I'm hoping for over 400 to the wheels.

 

[WhiteKnightfwd]

On average dont people with 60-1s get over 500whp with about 30psi?

 

[BrokenTsi]

I upgraded from a 50 trim to a 60-1. Good luck making 500hp with a 50 trim. At 25psi, all I can say is 60-1>50 trim. At lower boost levels...............50 trim seemed to make better power.

I normally ran my 60-1 at LEAST at 28psi on 110 octane from the local pump. Sometimes I ran 32psi, stock long block, stock head gasket, all year long, no issues. Top end was absolutely sick, while the 50 trim was boring like a 16g.

but now I'm all 3065 and shiznit.

 

[WhiteKnightfwd]

How much whp did you have with ## 60-1? Did you have ## factory maf?

 

[BrokenTsi]

I was using a 3" gm maf. Not sure on hp.