50 Trim Turbo?

[ewoevo]

I wanted to get ya'lls thoughts on this turbo setup (eclipse gst/gsx turbo kit (need to sell asap)). I've done some research, but haven't found a whole lot, so I wanted input from people who have experience with this. My goalis somewhere around 400 whp on a daily driver.

Thanks!

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

that's chinese garbage. don't waste your money.

 

[ewoevo]

Oh, I forgot to mention it is an XS Power 50 trim turbo. It comes with the turbo, manifold, 46mm wastegate, & piping for the oil return.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

Oh, I forgot to mention it is an XS Power 50 trim turbo. It comes with the turbo, manifold, 46mm wastegate, & piping for the oil return.

Again don't waste your money. Those parts are all absolute garbage and you will lose the money you spent on it when you throw it away and possibly create other problems because of its failure.

 

[DSM_PWR]

I sure wouldnt get it.. unless its for a civic

 

[silver bullit]

You have alot to learn...

Those are what you call ebay/chines knockoffs. There a good waste off 400 when everything in the set will fail in hours/days. Also known to cost people money cause it killed there motor.

Mani leaks and crack, Turbo blow apart in miles, wastegates dont let off boost so youre motor spiles to 30 psi and blows up, bov dont work, allowing compressor surge.

IT IS JUNK!

Dont waste your money.

Read this this is your start.
Tech Guide - DSMtuners

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

glad everyone else agrees.

 

[JusMX141]

All quality turbo shops base their 50-trim turbos around a Garrett center cartridge. All parts are interchangeable with Garrett, so pretty much no matter what 50-trim you're buying you'll end up with a Garrett.

The turbo in the link, however, is NOT a true Garrett turbo, and will NEVER get you to your 400whp goal without some issue. You'll suffer from weak journal bearings, compressor wheels that will crack and lose fins, and turbine shafts that will snap. If you don't buy a Garrett now, you'll wish you did.

 

[ewoevo]

This is pretty much what I thought, but thanks for the info guys. I'll hold off on a new turbo for now.

 

[selmerguy]

I have tested two ebay 50 trim turbos and a 43 trim t3. They work for about 3 months of daily driving. Then the seals go bad. The internals look ok but I would bet they are not balanced at all. I still use a ebay t3 manifold with no problems. It looks great and works fine. Get a good turbo. I will either be going with a holset or turbonetics 50 trim when I get my next turbo.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

All quality turbo shops base their 50-trim turbos around a Garrett center cartridge. All parts are interchangeable with Garrett, so pretty much no matter what 50-trim you're buying you'll end up with a Garrett.

That's an unfair statement, since our run-of-the-mill 50 trim's were also used with turbonetics CHRA's. Remember the SBR G50, AGP RS49T fiasco's?

wait, you said quality.

 

[selmerguy]

That's an unfair statement, since our run-of-the-mill 50 trim's were also used with turbonetics CHRA's. Remember the SBR G50, AGP RS49T fiasco's?

wait, you said quality.

I thought that the turbonetics turbos were garrett CHRA's with a polished compressor cover and 5 bolt hot side?

 

[99gst_racer]

I thought that the turbonetics turbos were garrett CHRA's with a polished compressor cover and 5 bolt hot side?

No, Turbonetics manufacturers their own CHRA's.

 

[JusMX141]

Correct, but I still believe they're made to exact Garrett specs.

For example- if you destroy the center housing on a Turbonetics turbo you can replace it with a Garrett housing....I've already done just that. The only difference I found is that I had to modify the housing slightly to accept the Turbonetics bolt-down 360* thrust plate- the Garrett center housing had no provision for a bolt down thrust plate.

 

[99gst_racer]

^^^ Good to know. I've always had the suspicion that their parts were interchangeable.

 

[JusMX141]

That theory stands for all of the Turbonetics turbos using the T3 turbine....some Turbonetics turbos use the Big Shaft T4 turbines; not sure if they'll fit the T3 center housing.

 

[dsm-onster]

If you want a cheap turbo with the capabilities of a 50-trim, look at the hx35 or h1c. Both can be had used for cheaper. And, though used, are MUCH more reliable. Holsets are known for their durability under compressor surge and overboosting. You'll need a bep housing for it to be a bolton affair (as bolt on as a t3/t4 50-trim would be), but even then you're paying no more than the cost of this turbo. And paying less than you would for a new MHIevo3 16g. You'll have more power potential than both the evo3 16g or garrett 50-trim and have faster spool.

 

[turboglenn]

Listen to prostreet and dsm-onster, they know what they are talking about. XS Power guy doens't know what half his turbos are, he lists most all of them with the same specs as 57 trims and the one my friend ordered from there for his honduh took a crap within 3 months of having it and had to be rebuilt with a new garret (non-knock off) CHRA which ended up totalling a bill that would have landed hima super sweet turbo of about anythign he could have wanted.

The H1C and HX35 are great from all teh research i've done since DSM-onster told me about them and that's probably my next step from my 57 trim unless i decide to go 20g, but i wouldn't buy anything from or that came from xs power

 

[Blindsey]

Wait a minute. Not to thread jack but......I have an older 60-1 from turbonetics, I wanted it rebuilt but they said they didn't carry that center section anymore. So instead i bought a SBR G50. Are you telling me that the center sections are interchangable?

 

[JusMX141]

The H1C and HX35 are great from all teh research i've done since DSM-onster told me about them and that's probably my next step from my 57 trim unless i decide to go 20g, but i wouldn't buy anything from or that came from xs power

I second that.

An HX35 can be had in great used condition on eBay for about $200. Add a $180 Bullseye turbine housing to that and for less than $400 you have a great, reliable turbo that can make tons of power. All the knockoff companies are jealous of a HX35's bang-4-buck ratio.

The thing to keep in mind is that a diesel isn't NEARLY as hard on turbos as our gas-powered cars. Diesels have no throttle plates so there's virtually no chance of compressor surge due to charge air backing up in the piping. Diesels also operate at temps that are consistently 300*-400* cooler than ours; so as long as it's well-oiled, there's little to no chance of accelerated wear.

 

[JusMX141]

Wait a minute. Not to thread jack but......I have an older 60-1 from turbonetics, I wanted it rebuilt but they said they didn't carry that center section anymore. So instead i bought a SBR G50. Are you telling me that the center sections are interchangable?

Guess who built your SBR G50? My money's on Turbonetics or Precision. Slowboy doesn't build any turbos in-house to my knowledge.

Guess what CHRA it uses? Oh yeah....a Garrett T3. It does, however, use a "Big Shaft" turbine so I'm not sure if the center housing had to be modified to accept the bigger turbine. I do know that the T3 and T4 turbos use the same journal bearings.

I can't vouch for Turbonetics because I don't understand half the things they do- for example, telling you that your 60-1 cannot be rebuilt. WHY? It's no different from any other 60-1 they've built since. I'll guarantee you could rebuilt that thing with ANY Garrett T3 rebuild kit that uses a 360* thrust plate.

Recently I rebuilt a PTE 5031E for a customer....similar scenerio. I was told that the only way I could get the proper rebuild kit was to buy it directly from Precision to the tune of some $165. I tore the turbo down and found that it was nothing more than a plain old $70 Garrett T3 parts kit with a 270* thrust plate that had been modified to screw onto the center housing instead of being held into place with the spring retainer.

A little creativity with my drill press and I was able to properly recess the mounting screws into the thrust plate as if it was made to fit that very turbo.

These companies think they have you by the balls becase you're at their mercy. Not many people would take on some of the challenges I do to rebuild the turbos they're rejecting. They'd much rather tell you it can't be rebuilt and sell you a brand new turbo for $800 than to bust their ass rebuilding turbos like me.

 

[Blindsey]

Guess who built your SBR G50? My money's on Turbonetics or Precision. Slowboy doesn't build any turbos in-house to my knowledge.

Guess what CHRA it uses? Oh yeah....a Garrett T3. It does, however, use a "Big Shaft" turbine so I'm not sure if the center housing had to be modified to accept the bigger turbine. I do know that the T3 and T4 turbos use the same journal bearings.

I can't vouch for Turbonetics because I don't understand half the things they do- for example, telling you that your 60-1 cannot be rebuilt. WHY? It's no different from any other 60-1 they've built since. I'll guarantee you could rebuilt that thing with ANY Garrett T3 rebuild kit that uses a 360* thrust plate.

Recently I rebuilt a PTE 5031E for a customer....similar scenerio. I was told that the only way I could get the proper rebuild kit was to buy it directly from Precision to the tune of some $165. I tore the turbo down and found that it was nothing more than a plain old $70 Garrett T3 parts kit with a 270* thrust plate that had been modified to screw onto the center housing instead of being held into place with the spring retainer.

A little creativity with my drill press and I was able to properly recess the mounting screws into the thrust plate as if it was made to fit that very turbo.

These companies think they have you by the balls becase you're at their mercy. Not many people would take on some of the challenges I do to rebuild the turbos they're rejecting. They'd much rather tell you it can't be rebuilt and sell you a brand new turbo for $800 than to bust their ass rebuilding turbos like me.

Well they told me it couldn't be rebuilt becuase it wasn't the large shaft that they are using now. But if i can just swap my Turbine and compressor housing and have the same thing I'm in good shape.

 

[JusMX141]

Well they told me it couldn't be rebuilt becuase it wasn't the large shaft that they are using now.

So let me get this straight....they're totally unwilling to FIND you the proper turbine wheel? They apparently have no parts in stock to service old models of turbos THEY'VE built in the past.

That's like going to the dealer trying to buy a wheel hub assembly for a common Dodge Caravan of which you see thousands on the highway every day and they tell you "We can't help you. The Caravan was redesigned last year and uses a completely different hub now....so we have plenty of wheel hubs here for the new vans."

Who knows of a brand new car in need of a wheel bearing?

 

[dsm-onster]

The H1C and HX35 are great from all teh research i've done since DSM-onster told me about them and that's probably my next step from my 57 trim unless i decide to go 20g, but i wouldn't buy anything from or that came from xs power

I was literally seconds away from buying a real 20g on ebay when I found the compressor map for the hx35. 52 flippin' lbs/min!!! That is 3lbs/min more than a 50-trim. The 20g shows only 48 lbs/min. The h1c flows slightly less than an hx35. Even if it flow 4 lbs/min less than the hx35 (48 lbs/min), it still is cheaper than a 20g as a bolt on w/ the bep housing, for now. Spool speed of the hx35 and h1c is faster than a 20g or 50-trim.

The small h1e compressor wheel and compressor housing can be swapped on cheaply and puts flow at 55lbs/min. We DO have the compressor map for the h1e and it doesn't show the 137K rpm line which would put flow higher. The h1e has the antisurge cover and the introduction of the large bep housing gives me the ability likely to max out the 55lb/min h1e compressor as well. . . You can start out small and fast spooling and endup with something better than a gt3076r.

Justin, I hear diesel turbos compressor surge daily. The 5.8 cummins especially. When the fuel is cut, the pistons slow very quickly. And the spool speed is so fast that when under a tow load, the engine simply can't injest enough air to stop surge at mid rpm which is only 2000rpms. Holset pioneered and patented the first antisurge porting in 1990 with MWE. I highly doubt holset would build a turbo with less tolerance to surge than their rivals, Borg-Warner and Garrett.

Yet, the hx35 and wh1c has MWE. The big h1c is the wh1c, but without MWE. However, the webbing and port entrance is there. And for under 40 bones, any machine shop can cut the groove. Nevertheless, my big h1c has shown zero signs of compressor surge even with the small 16g spool speed.

 

[ewoevo]

Would this be one of the turbos you're talking about?

eBay Motors: 1992 Dodge 5.9l cummins turbo charger H1C (item 250258338714 end time Jun-18-08 23:35:42 PDT)